Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Why so serious about AAA games ?
Me, enjoy my Switch games mostly from Non AAA games (Some Great Indies, A level 3rd party games, some AA Level 1st party games).

@Grumblevolcano
Franchises like Assassin's Creed and Watch Dogs came even to Wii U

Here's the thing about that though. They came to Wii U because Wii U was following up the success of the Wii, so it was an easy sell to developers. Hey, we just sold 100 million consoles, back us. And those games were all releasing on PS3/360 at the time, so they could all run on the Wii U.

And what happened? They didn't sell. At all. Right? That support was fleeting from the day the Wii U launched. The only reason it got Assassin's Creed 4 and Splinter Cell Blacklist was because they were already in development, something they knew was a mistake from launch day and the reason they cut modes out, didn't bring over the DLC, etc.The support Wii U saw was all in year 1- the only reason those games still came was because they were already in development, and even then, several games were cancelled even despite being in development for the system.

So ok, now look at Switch. Rather than come off the back of the uber-successful Wii, it came off the back of the titanic failure Wii U. That's number one. Number two, games are no longer releasing on PS3/360 where they can easily run on Switch without major modification, they're releasing on PS4/X1. And for three, Wii U showed many of them that the core Nintendo fanbase has little interest in western high-budget games. So naturally, they're going to question how much demand there is on Switch.

Why do you think Ubisoft polled Nintendo gamers about whether they wanted to see games like Assassins Creed on Switch last year? Because they have doubts concerning how many people actually want to play them. You get a lot of fussing in here on Nintendo fan sites but then when the games release if they don't do well, it just goes to show you had a vocal minority crying out, just like on Wii U. Tons of people crying out that they wanted those games but then they didn't sell.

Now. I do believe there is a market for those games on Switch, or at least, there could be. But only because the fanbase has slowly started becoming more receptive to 3rd party titles.

The problem is convincing Ubisoft and others of that. They have a long track record of Nintendo fans not buying those games. Some of that has to do with the smaller install base of Wii U, sure, some of it is because Nintendo fans simply aren't as interested in those titles. I do actually think there's enough demand, now, to release them on Switch at this point in time. Hopefully Ubisoft agrees. But let's say Ubi came to their senses in December 2017 and said hey, this system is selling, 3rd party games are selling (although I would remind people the sales of Ubisoft games in particular haven't been quite as good- South Park did 1.2 mil on PS4, so a late port without the Stick of Truth will naturally not do as well, but if it reaches 500k I'd say that's good). Let's start looking at what other games we can bring. Obviously the engine those games run on will be a factor (hence Southpark coming so soon, while development struggles of games like Steep keep reality in check of how much work some games would take).

I think before we are going to see a lot of those games come over, which unlike Wii U do not have an equivalent powered version to port from, they are going to have to figure out what engines they can get running on Switch. Snowdrop is a go. So any games developed in the engine should come over. But what other engines are they using and are they going to be compatible? And let's say they do want to bring AC, they're gonna have to get the engine running on Switch, or, simply start integrating Switch into future engines from the get go. But they've already got all their engines developed for this generation which means, Switch wouldn't benefit in the near future, or even this generation.

Maybe they do want to bring Splinter Cell. But maybe they game is already in development and it's using an engine that's not on Switch. And they know it would be an uphill battle. That's where the real work lies. Figuring out which engines can be ported to Switch, and which games can be ported to Switch in a multiplatform engine without questionable performance, which is also going to require scaling down.

It's a lot more complicated than just "Wii U got this game and Switch hasn't". There's deep, underlying reasons Wii U got the games it did, and deep, underlying reasons Switch has not (as of yet).

@JaxonH @Grumblevolcano "Here's the thing about that though. They came to Wii U because Wii U was following up the success of the Wii, so it was an easy sell to developers."

There's also the architecture issue. WiiU was basically just a beefed up X360 inside. Porting games from X360 to WiiU took next to zero effort, so games from that first year were easy and cheap to bring over while they were still cranking out X360 content. After that, core development moved to x86 only, which made both WiiU and Switch a platform you have to think about specially and separately again. For WiiU that wasn't worth it (at all) after year 1. For Switch it is, but takes time and they do have to "choose which properties work on the platform" blah blah as they always say, because they do have to commit some resources to porting the engine to ARM if it's not natively supported (Unity/Snowdrop/UE4/Bethesda's engines now, etc) so they're only going to commit to it if they think a game will do well on Switch.

@JaxonH One thing to remember regarding Ubisoft sales numbers by platform though is you have to look at net profit by platform, not sales units. PS4 may sell a lot more of a title, but Ubisoft often runs DEEP sales on those other platforms.....40%, 50%, 75%, even 85% sales. So they sell a LOT of units, but they're making Walmart margins off it. Nintendo owners tend to be willing to buy at closer to full price, so they can net the same margins off far fewer units sold on Nintendo (but minus porting costs which have to be figured in.) The numbers get kind of complicated, but it's rarely as bleak as it looks on the internet by unit sales!

@NEStalgia
That's very true, but now Switch games are consistently making $5-8 less per sale than other platforms for 16gb cart games (which Southpark TFBW is). And, Ubisoft games still drop price like crazy on Nintendo platforms (See Rayman Legends for $19.99 and Mario Rabbids for $29.99).

If anything, I'd say they need to sell more on Switch to equal the same net profit. But for the sake of argument, can settle on an equivalent profit sale per sale. Just say cart costs cancel out the [presumed] higher average price per sale.

But South Park is so good, and so many people were saying "why isn't that game on Switch". It surprises me that, now that it's on Switch, and it looks great and it runs great and it's a truly excellent game... so few people seem to care. The forum topic for the game is basically empty and dead. Just another example of games people complain about not coming to Switch, but then when it comes nobody cares. It made it up to #40 yesterday on the Amazon Top Sellers list. Which isn't that great- Mario Rabbids was at #39, and it's been out almost a year. Versus South Park at #40 on its launch day. Today it's at 56. So already dropping back down.

That's the kind of stuff that concerns me when it comes to third-party support. A lot of games are thriving on Switch, but a high-quality game like this deserves to do better than it's doing. If people really want to see Boobysoft bring its portfolio over, then high profile, critically acclaimed games like this need to do better than topping out at the equivalent sales of a game that's been out for a year.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is ridiculously fun. It's not going to take long for this to become my most-played game on the system.

I don't know how am i suppose to say, but.... even i owned Zelda BOTW, an AAA games like million peoples said, but i ALMOST Never touch that game for 4 months since 24 December 2017.
I knew Zelda BOTW has some potential in my opinion, but lately i prefer Portal Knights ( Non AAA games ) more than All my Switch games. I can see from my gameplay hours, only Portal Knights that i played More than 150 hours since 24 Dec 2017, while ARMS still on 2nd place with 40++ gameplay hours, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe with 25++ gameplay hours.

Well, I guess AAA games are Not Guarantee can make peoples play frequently.

@Anti-Matter hey man I know this is gonna be a shocker to you, I hope you are sitting down....

Not Everyone Is Like You. People Have Different Tastes And There Is Nothing Wrong With That. Accept It

Looks like I was partially wrong about God of War beating Labo.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/04/japanese_sales_charts_...

Hah !!
See...?
I told ya !
LABO will going Viral on Youtube !

@Ralizah It already is for me lol. I have 300 hours on my main file and I'm like 15 hours into my second fresh playthrough (interrupted by real life stuff and other games like Bayonetta). Then when Extreme difficulty comes out, I'll be doing a third fresh playthrough.

@TheTetrisGuy Makes sense that Labo will beat God of War in Japan. In America/Europe, I predict the opposite. That said, the big thing about Labo is that it's a still a new "platform", with multiple different kits, which can really push Labo numbers up high.

God of war has never really sold all that well in Japan so that is hardly shocking. While I do enjoy labo I think GOW will trounce it in other territories however.

Gamers.

Still pitting games from different platforms against each other, as if one outselling the other means anything to anyone. Who gives a crap what sells more. Seriously. Aside from AntiMatter, who is clearly very emotionally vested in this.

@JaxonH Not even two unrelated games. They're comparing an M-rated AAA action game and what amounts to a peripheral designed primarily for children.

Wait... Green? What is this Wizardry!

@JaxonH Is that $5-8 confirmed? That' seems extraordinarily high (I'd believe that as total package cost, shipped, but not cost differential.) If it's true, Nintendo's flat out gouging vendors (or Micronix is gouging Nintendo.)

Yeah, Ubi does do some discounts on Nintendo, but not as deep as what I tend to see on other platforms. You could get pretty much any AC, Far Cry, Steep, or a few other Ubi games this winter for generally $20 or less usually including most DLC packs on PSN or XBO. Lots of them were under $15 at at least one point. But yeah, Nintendo will never move the numbers PS will for those games....people buy PS to specifically play games like that, where people on Nintendo MAY play games like that. It does make it harder for them to choose to port.

Southpark: I'm surprised it's not more popular around here, yeah. Well, I'm avoiding the thread because I'm avoiding spoilers, maybe others are too.... I'm probably not going to open it until I'm done DQ:B.....I'm near the end of chapter 3. So little gaming time lately

And it's been out for some time. In an industry when 50+% of sales are in the first two weeks, the audience here is stragglers, double dippers, and people like me who resisted getting it for $25 3 separate times on PS4 hoping it would come to Switch....but I think most would rather buy it for $25 on platforms they own than $60 on Switch.....especially when you KNOW it will be discounted (the self defeating strategy of discounting your wares constantly is catching up....) I'm personally glad they ported it, but I do have to wonder when late ports (other than PC->Console or console->PC) ever sell very well, and if it's ever a good plan. In this case I doubt it cost much to port though, so it'll be profitable (after the price drops...)

I would HOPE the publishers are well aware of the targets to expect for a late port on a game that's already been discounted for months on end. EA certainly didn't understand that dynamic years ago.....but i'm more hopeful that Ubisoft does (I.E. not trying "this late port at high price better match sales of primary platforms" and aiming for "we projected based on game age and price to see sales in range x and surpassed it".) But it's a legit catch-22. Games that are largely about their graphics will always be "worst" on Switch and see lowest sales as a result. The metric really can't be a comparison of sales to other platforms tailor made for the kinds of games they're making....it has to be simply "is this profitable?" Smart business will know that. Less thoughtful business will obsess over maximized sales.

@Anti-Matter I'd have said it sounds like you're more a "casual" or "retro/arcade" style gamer. Though you like your JRPGs like FF which are more of that big AAA environment. BotW is very "western" in game design which is what most mean when talking about "big AAAs".....basically Japanese design is very guided and focused...soemwhat on rails with clearly defined objectives. Western design is very free form, about solving problems creatively via arriving at your own solutions. There's good and bad to both, but it sounds like you like a guided, focused, defined experience more than free-form creative solution finding. I'm kind of in the middle. I like a tighter focus than a lot of western games provide, but I still like that creative freedom of finding my own path.

@Ralizah how does it perform in handheld mode? I'll be doing a lot of handheld play soon....debating between XC2 and South Park next

"Not even two unrelated games. They're comparing an M-rated AAA action game and what amounts to a peripheral designed primarily for children"

Wait....which is that? I expect the GoW demographic to be mostly 11-16 year olds and the Labo demographic to be mostly 22-50 year olds. Just a hunch.

@DarthNocturnal Nope, it's definitely blue

@NEStalgia Xenoblade 2 in handheld is rough. Really rough. But the great art direction still shines through the low resolution. It's not "368p" low ALL the time though. People act like that's the default resolution when it's not that common to hit that low, when by that logic Odyssey is a 720p game docked because it can hit 720p sometimes. It's still very much playable and decent looking, and if you came off of Xenoblade 1 on the 3DS, Xenoblade 2 is such a massive improvement.

That said, it's still Nintendo's worst docked-to-handheld conversion to date and nothing else can change that fact.

@NEStalgia
$5-8 is the price difference between buying a single bluray disc, and buying a 16gb micro SD card. Of course both of them will cost less than what we as consumers pay because they are buying them in bulk, and the cartridges are read only, but they are also proprietary and have protections. Point being, there's no way they are paying less than $5 for a 16gb cart. And there's no way they're paying more than $.25 for a Blu-ray Disc.

It's also more complex than just "is this profitable" because you have to look at opportunity cost. Sure, it may be profitable. Maybe they make $1,000,000 net profit from the venture. That's all well and good. The question is, how much money are they losing by not devoting those resources elsewhere? Perhaps they could have made five million dollars profit had that dev team worked on something else for PS4/X1/PC.

So it's not just about being profitable, it's about being more profitable. That's where subcontracting comes in to play. Hire someone else to do the work to eliminate the opportunity cost. Problem with that, is there are limited developers with the skills necessary to do proper Switch ports. Hence the high demand for Panic Button and all the requests they've been receiving.

@NEStalgia
Um...
I think you were correct about my gaming style.
I played more games created by Japanese developers than by Western developers.
The Only Western games that Captivating me as Same level with Japanese games are :
1. The Sims series ( 9 / 10 ), created by Maxis, from U.S.A.
2. Portal Knights ( 8.5 / 10 ), created by Keen Games, from Germany.

Retro style ? Well.... kinda.
I still fond with some NDS games with their pretty 2D art styles. They looked pretty.

Casual ?
I play Dance Dance Revolution so intensively & seriously, until i can pass Level 18 songs on DDR Arcade. If Casual players will try Easy level, i play it in Hardcore level. I have been playing DDR for Almost 15 years, and i still play DDR until today.

Note: Btw, DDR is simply a 10 / 10 game for me.
I Never bored to play DDR X2 every Sunday at TimeZone.

@NEStalgia Well, I can only speak to the demographics such products are ostensibly aimed at.

Regarding XC2 in handheld mode: it's playable. The framerate mostly holds up, but the adaptive resolution is always sub-HD, weaves around like a drunk in certain areas, and varies between "OK" and "terrible" (we're talking sub-PS Vita resolution in some spots).

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I want you to know exactly what you'd be getting. If what I said doesn't bother you tremendously, then I'd absolutely recommend it. It's one of the funnest JRPG's I've ever played. Easily my favorite Monolith Soft game, and if it wasn't so poorly optimized (and if it lacked a few small annoyances), it might even have been my favorite Switch game overall.