Yoshi3

@Novuscourvous First: You cant say anything "factually" when you're giving your opinion.
Second: I've heard this argument countless times. The only thing going on in BotW and TotK that was like the first game was the exploration.... and that's it.
In the NES game, they didn't give you all the items from the get go. You had dungeons. You had an item focused structure of progression which would later be know as the Zeldavania formula. There were special items, in this case Heart Containers or other items, that could only be reached and found with certain special items, which you had to get by beating dungeons.

So... no... BotW and TotK are as far away as the "original formula" as they can be........ just because you could enter SOME dungeons out of order doesn't mean BotW and TotK are like it ... LMAO

And... oh god... if you think TotK had traditional dungeons... you have quite some Zeldas to really catch up on to understand the franchise at all.

@croz the thing is, I don't think we are agreeing because you're not talking about formula. You're talking about other things. The formula was made up from a different kind of structure that BotW and TotK forgot. There were temples, items, progression, etc.
Here, let the master of the Vanias, Igarashi, talk for me, its a good watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvUx43CrvaM&ab_channel=LimitedRunGames

@croz naah, the speech that Zelda needed a refresh in the formula was AFTER Skyward Sword released because it was extremely linear compared to the previous ones.
Nintendo heard this and then experimented to give us BotW …
I never heard people complain about Twilight Princess’ formula in its time and between it and SS.
And it doesn’t matter if it was on consoles or handhelds, (I don’t know why you would separate them at all if we are talking game structure) all Zeldas used the same formula before BotW and SS and they all worked fine. (Also your 8 years is still just 2 games with that stale formula)... So I’ll keep the 12-15 games and 25+ years argument.

There’s absolutely no difference in them having a 2D to 3D transition because the formula was kept intact. They all benefited from the Zeldavania style of progression, which BotW threw out of the window just because.

@Kwyjibo_Kitsune ohh god… the signs… taking away hours of my life in one of the worst activities I’ve seen in a game. And 81 of them!!

And I agree. BOTW at least had the “new” factor going on for it.
TotK had NOTHING.
Except a building mechanic, which, let’s be honest everyone, that doesn’t belong in Zelda just as it didn’t belong in a Banjo Kazooie game.
TotK is pure burnout. Its just, “let’s add hundreds of repetitive things because we ran out of creativity. Let the gamer take care of that”

@croz yes, but by the time it grew stale there had been 10-15 games and 25+ years.
This, by just the second game, has grown stale. So…..
And let’s be honest, the formula just changed because Skyward messed up. Everything was fine before that.

@Kwyjibo_Kitsune for people who just started gaming maybe.
For people who have been in the Zelda landscape for quite a while, not by a mile.
It was mostly the same as its predecessor …. And it deviated too much from what Zelda used to be.
But this time you had a tacky building mechanic attached to it. (Which took away 3+ years of development time just to do that and took away focus of things that really mattered in the game)
(I, in my 38 years of Zelda, have never played the franchise to fill a need to build cars, spaceships and planes, for that there are other franchises)
And the Depths were a procedurally generated dull fest… and the islands not varied enough to be that interesting.

As always, that’s my opinion, glad some people enjoyed it. But this style has been around for 10 years now. It’s time to either move on or go back.

@dartmonkey I spent 90 hours too. And I didn’t enjoy it at all. It’s an OCD (Obsessive Completionist Disorder) Zelda thing since the NES. Having to play them all to the 100% finish line.
One of the worst “Zelda”s in my experience.
Ambitious, yes… boring and dull? Definitely

To me this experience was akin to playing the second time and so on, the Temple of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass on repeat for 90 hours.

Gotta agree with @Lizuka here.
I’d rather experience it to make my own opinion

Go back to this Zelda formula. BotW and TotK overstayed their welcome.

For everyone complaining that this isn't a game to 100%.
It isn't?
Then why include medals and unlockables at all if you don't want to finish your "game"?
There's a reason the term COMPLETIONIST exists.
I mean ... if i'm PAYING for this I'd want to complete it to 100%.

@Maxz lol.. you’re right

@Maxz don't you mean the Bonanza to the mouse controls? That one was better

Whenever there's big worlds... Monolith Soft follows.

The art and animation look great! ... I'll put it on my whishlist

@AvianBlue because, just as you said, that was before the internet. Also you had something physical.
This thing is neither one of those.... its after the internet and digital. So there's no real comparison.

Also its not about being just free ... its about being a pack in... if its a pack in, then most people who buy the console would play it. If its something you have to buy, then yeah, you just killed your potential audience because no one is gonna get a demo.... just a few.

So the transition to open world is a hit or miss ...... the genre killer strikes again. Stop trying to transform everything to open world.

@Alpha008 no... if you like it we burn you at the stake with it

@jetsetradion if it’s a DEMOnstration of a product or something… then it’s LITERALLY and by definition… a DEMO.
Call it what you want, but it’s a DEMO through and through.

It looks interesting… however it still should have been a pack in and many people will die on that hill. Me included.

@sanderev you don't have to repeat yourself because there's no reasoning or difference behind it. You can keep the sound design beyond just having the same piano in each piece. There's no reason to have battle themes that are pretty similar to ambience sounds in an action game. But that's your taste.

And if you want a better example, just compare it to the Shadow of the Colossus soundtrack, which requires the same sound design as TotK and is way more iconic.

Looks fun... but not enough to not be a pack in.

@sanderev and what is the difference with the sound design with Xenoblade X and TotK for example? Both have biomes and each requiere music for it, no? Why can one have great epic music and the other just uninspired wind chimes? Hell... even for common battles in TotK they could have used better songs.

And your Korok reasoning doesnt apply. If so, please tell me why we could find Skulltulas in Ocarina and MM? Even with blown out music? Any other gameplay element would have worked... Link's back starting to glow (any visual cue), your controller having some kind of vibration, ANYTHING.... collectible hunting is not exclusive to sounds.

@sanderev but we are not comparing combat, gameplay or story... are we?
We are talking about music.
And you can't turn off the music in BotW or TotK because you always have to be on the lookout for the pesky Korok sounds to find them.
Anyway, I think we are discussing something that goes more about each person's tastes, but I'll never see an excuse not to have an ost like Xenoblade X, which is the closest example to TotK and BotW... hell, they even shared teams.

For me it was just the Aonuma excuse to use all his resources to develop his building mechanic for 3+ years and leave every other creative element to rot. (And its documented in interviews)

@sanderev wait... lol... did you just said Xenoblade (franchise) is "too" linear? Just because they are RPGs doesn't make them "linear". Sure, sometimes you need to go from A to reach point B for the story to progress... (but at least it has a story that makes sense, unlike Totk and BotW which are all over the place and have no order) And Xenoblade X is DEFINITELY open world. I think you need to play a bit of Xenoblade to make those assumptions.
Yes... TotK has different music for each region... being mostly ambience sounds for each one. Towns mostly don't have iconic music, for that please refer to Wind Waker among others. Combat music is preeeeetty dull... except for some boss fights, which is the norm in every videogame.

Yes, the example you gave would be extremely annoying in a 150+ hour game... imagine if they had put the same effort for the TotK ost as they did for Ocarina of Time ... but with 20 or so songs like that to add variety.
But I guess they wanted to go for the cheap and easy route... reuse most of the BotW soundtrack.
The example you gave, there's a reason why its so iconic and is so associated with the franchise in general.
Hell even the open sea theme in Wind Waker is more creative than wind chimes for 100 hours and doesn't become annoying.... and you listen to it... a lot.

And I definitely can compare Xenoblade to this, because you spend HOURS in each biome, in each area, and the music NEVER grows dull. (Except a few exceptions like the LA theme in X, but that is because its a pretty bad song overall)

Anyway... there's tastes for everyone.... but I'll die on the hill that it was a sin to repeat most of the BotW ost in a 150+ hour game that is almost the same as the previous one.

@AJWolfTill that's why I said they could have added about 10 more songs to add variety to the X remaster. The thing with the LA theme is pretty irritating even for a single listening, so that's that, its a bad song, let alone in repeat. The rest of the OST is composed by the mastermind Hiroyuki Sawano from Attack on Titan fame... which makes the game feel pretty epic., even in the biome themes (which are not ambient sounds btw)... Something BotW and TotK severely lack.
I agree with the Colger theme... But the thing with Colgera is... yes, its one of the few great songs... and you hear it twice or so in a 150+ hour game. The other 149 hours and 30 minutes is the dullest ost ive heard. At least I understood it with BotW ... but repeating it with Totk was too much... just like its reused map.
Why do the common battle themes have to feel like the most boring pieces of action in a Zelda game is beyond me.

@jfp said it best ... you can trim almost 11 hours of filler from this ost.

@sanderev I disagree but I understand what you’re saying. And I’m fully aware of that. However, for example, Xenoblade Chronicles have done it for 4 entries, with memorable music and tracks for each biome and area, as well as battle themes.
I don’t think there’s really an excuse for Zelda not to achieve that too when it was a franchise known for its iconic music. Hell, even the battle themes don’t change too much from environmental tracks.
It has a couple of memorable tunes but it’s a far cry from what Zelda music was.
I mean, I’ve played 180 hours in Mira in Xenoblade X and they nailed it with the music. (If they added 10 more tracks to give it some variety in the remaster it would have been perfect)
And it worsens when you have BotW and it’s sequel sounding and looking almost the same.
What happened is that they decided on a theme for BotW, which was interesting because they wanted this “natural and wild” theme going around. Then, for the sequel, they threw all their eggs in the same basket with their development times into the building mechanics and didn’t care for the rest of the elements of the game.
There’s no excuse to reuse almost the same music.

@N00BiSH I don't like atmoshperic soundscapes ... there

... I like my Zeldas with iconic music... and not 11 hours of the same reused sounds and wind chimes.

• insert the obligatory ... 10 1/2 hours of crickets and birds chirping ambient sounds and 20 minutes of actual music.

Yes... 10 1/2 hours of crickets and birds chirping ambient sounds and 20 minutes of actual music.

Anyway... glad this one is now behind.... bring us the other Zelda music.

@KingMike Kinect stuff

@Suketoudara but do we really believe them? I mean, we can get ocasional PS4 ports… but no rewind for N64 games? I don’t buy it

Come on… really? Rewind is only available for Switch 2? 🙄🙄🙄

@DwaynesGames ahhh that theme was atrocious!!! I dont even know how it passed by the playtest phase.

Is it gonna be just an empty land lot just like BotW and TotK?

HA!!! This is definite proof that The Depths in TotK were procedurally generated. Thanks for finally clarifying what I already suspected and that everyone was negating.

Since Monolith was in charge of assisting with the design of Hyrule, and previous interviews hinted that they actually generated The Depths procedurally … no real design at all and it showed. A vast, empty, boring and samey land. They only used the inverse topography as template and filled it procedurally.
I’m more and more disappointed with that game as time passes by.

Not Monolith’s fault though… as they make amazing games and worlds…. that’s on Nintendo and Aonuma for cutting corners in design, costs and time with the sequel and reusing whatever they could, just to spend all their time implementing the damn building mechanics 🙄🙄

What’s even more interesting about this is that, if this was their first time incorporating it… this makes Xenoblade Chronicles X even more impressive because it released 10 years ago and without using the tech to build and design Mira. And it shows! You can see Mira is leagues away and an achievement from a “hand-made” design perspective than what they gave us with The Depths.

@dew12333 lol... read the article. And even so, if this was an actual game it would be a BIG BOY effort. Nobody would be saying "we made a NEW game", a reimagining takes a lot of effort too.

One of the very best in the console and my favorite multiplayer game in my childhood. There's nothing more satisfying than teaming up with buddies against some savagely cruel bots.

We need the Gameboy Color game on NSO... just for preservation.

@Zedecks Zelda BotW and Totk ... its easy... but as I mentioned... it was obvious for people who see my posts.

Wow I need all these icons!!

@Anti-Matter but can you make music with Yoshi icons and sounds??

@SalvorHardin I mean, most know my disdain for the BotW Zeldas, so I try to avoid the topic...

Anyway... from a story viewpoint I can understand what you mean... but at least it gave us another side besides the silent protagonist trope. Yeah it may have been out of character but its not game breaking. Story breaking, sure ... but I don't mind. From the gameplay perspective, it was fun, it was a true Metroidvania, the action was great, the level design was good, the sound design and music were also great.
It's easily an 8 in my Metroid book.

@rvcolem1 I agree, it’s not perfect nor the best Metroid game. But it was fun, had some creative ideas and kept the Metroidvania formula alive and intact.
I’ve played worse, I’ve played better.

Metroid Other M was a good game. Doesn’t deserve the hate it got.
I’ve seen worse reimagining of IPs… one which I don’t think I need to mention here based on my comment history.

Al I the only one who likes fixed camera gameplay? I can’t wait for Capcom to port RE2 and RE3 Classic to Switch

It’s time to move on from this age of Zelda. Let it die with this game and TotK.
Also, Warriors games are repetitive as Fark

People saying the characters don’t matter in F-Zero really don’t understand F-Zero.
Wanna guess why games like Wipeout, FAST, and Extreme G didn’t have the same IP power? And felt dull, boring and nothing like F-Zero?
That’s right, because of the characters. Each character made their own ship racer so unique that you could feel their personality on the design and the way it played. It gave variety in its designs. Backstory. Purpose. Each character had a rival and had a reason to win.
It’s the Wacky Racers and Speed Racer of video games to an extreme.
Mr. EAD never played the same as Falcon… and you were always curious to try these totally different ships…. Unlike the other futuristic racers where they only mean a stats difference.
Characters, speed and tight gameplay is what F-Zero is and the reason there’s nothing quite like it 25 years later

Castlevania Dominus Collection…. Starting my way through Dawn of Sorrow

Looks fun… I have fond memories of playing Micro Machines on the N64 … so I’ll definitely buy this down the line.

The thing is … with each passing gen we see less noticeable graphical leaps… which means that Nintendo will catch on with their competitors at least by Switch 3. Which in turn will blend any console differences for developers and publishers. Innovation will start to occur again for Nintendo in how we play games, like the Wii generation.

DK 64 and Diddy Kong Racing please!

Diddy Kong I like … Donkey Kong I do not