Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom

@cwong15 For whatever it's worth, a lot of people call games like Zelda Echoes 2.5D

Seeing as you can arbitrarily stack echoes anywhere, I'd think that the third dimension is going to be in play most of the time. That's as opposed to, say, Phantom Hourglass, where you're only rarely using it, typically only as scripted events.

@Matt_Barber I guess, but even then 2D Zelda is still referred to as 2D Zelda since it follows the same style of the old 2D games. Plus it rolls off the tongue better than "Top down Zelda."

Yeah, the terms stick because they're succinct, even if not strictly accurate.

Thinking about it, Triforce Heroes has a lot of 3D puzzles in it too. That's a much easier game to wave away as an outlier than I'd expect Echoes of Wisdom to be, however.

I’ve seen some people tired of the Breath of the Wild-infication of Zelda games, but this game is unique because it has a blend of both the old and new, which each have their own dedicated fans. For a game with Zelda as the protag, they did a fantastic job making her not just be a female link. They give her a sword form, but it’s cleverly timed so you can’t burn through the game with it, you gotta be creative. Truthfully, I will probably buy this game day one not only because it looks incredible, but because I support having Zelda as the protagonist for more loz games in the future

Personally I don't mind Zelda being the protagonist of this game, but I hope they don't just go and make Link a supporting role in future games with Zelda being the primary protagonist. I like playing as Link and I enjoy him as a main character more than anything. I feel like Zelda being the protagonist of Echoes of Wisdom is going to be a one and done sort of deal, sorta like with Zelda being the sidekick in Spirit Tracks.

I doubt it's going to be as straightforward as that. I can imagine them seeing how to push what can be done with them both as playable characters within the same story(no extra modes or anything like that) should they try their hands at a playable Zelda again.

Fair points all round, but I think the 2D vs 3D distinction will get eroded further with this particular Zelda installment. We see Zelda climbing, scaling cliffs and flying. The vertical axis is much more prominent here.

@N00BiSH I feel like that'll probably be what they do next if Zelda is given a protagonist role again. I genuinely feel like her being the sole protagonist is just for this game and this game only.

@cwong15 Minish Cap had that stuff too and it was a 2D Zelda.

@N00BiSH I don't recall the vertical axis being so prevalent in Minish Cap. It simulated depth using the usual 2D conventions found in older games like the Final Fantasy series, IIRC. You have restricted paths to restricted areas that happened to look like ladders or stairs leading to "levels". You had areas that had limited movement so you could leave but could not reenter: they happened to look like ledges or bridges, so it looked like you were jumping off. These are limited zones of simulated verticality.

This Zelda is different. You have the vertical axis in your pocket everywhere, making 3-axis gameplay prevalent. Anywhere at any height (and height is achievable anywhere), you could start gliding, and that retain that height wherever you glide (I'm basing off your ability to anchor to a bird). In dungeons, you have this spider that webs to your ceiling with a vertical line. That is literally your Z axis that you can pull out anywhere.

Given all this, I'm not sure there is a meaningful technical distinction now between "2D" and "3D". They're all rendered in 3D with lighting and textures. The only distinction is the fixed camera angle in "2D", even though even the concept of a "camera" is a 3D graphics concept. But since we don't have good (non-clunky) alternative terminology, I guess we'll continue to call this genre "2D".

@cwong15 Well beyond just the graphical style, there are other differences that are what make "2D Zelda" 2D Zelda. There's the level design for one, where dungeons and puzzles are designed in a very different way compared to full on 3D Zelda dungeons and puzzles. There's the whole side-scrolling aspect that Link's Awakening had. The over-all level design and how it's presented also differs heavily.

Even though this game is a bit more open and has more free-form puzzles, if you were to take this game and compare it to Tears of the Kingdom- there's still a massive difference in how the level design is conveyed and how the game is structured which is still unique to the "2D Zelda" titles.

It's like how if you compare A Link Between Worlds to Twilight Princess or Ocarina of Time. A Link Between Worlds is rendered in a 3D style, but the level designs and puzzles are handled in a different way that makes the game more unique from the other 3D games. This is the same with Echoes of Wisdom and the new Zelda titles that are "3D Zeldas."

I pre-ordered it with a voucher and it just downloaded itself to my Switch and is staring at me.

I pre-ordered a physical copy and will have to wait until Thursday.

Game looks like a good combination of oldskool topdown Zelda with Botw/Totk mechanics, complete with traditional dungeons. My only fears are that the enemy and boss-fighting aren't satisfying enough because there isn't proper swordplay anymore (only briefly in some situations if you want). And while the Still world could be fun and strange, it may also be very lineair!

As for the puzzles: The traditional puzzles with only one solution are gone for good. While I love the open-ended puzzles, I do miss the traditional puzzles sometimes. But that's how it goes.

Read it here: https://www.nintendo.com/us/whatsnew/ask-the-developer-vol-13...

Getting close here. Should be done with plucky squire in a day or so. Ready to rock and roll.

@NintendoByNature I'm keepin' busy with UFO 50 myself.

just pre-ordered !! have to juggle this and earthbound. so so soooo excitedddd ahhh! i wonder what the final boss will be, and im excited to try the link parts! hopefully the game will be plenty long :3