Topic: Why is everyone talking about a “Switch 2?”

I mean, steam does sell a cheap dock which does the same thing as a Switch dock. Even without that optional accessory, It is extremely easy to connect to a tv and be used with a controller.

There are also third-party docks which work both for steam deck and Switch so you can drop in either.

@Kingchin
As @FishyS said, all of these PC portables can plug into your TV. Whether through a dock or a dongle (which are functionally the same thing). The Switch doesn't have a patent on alternate modes for USB Type C, it's a standard part of the USB Type C spec. Lots of devices can do exactly what the Switch does, just look at how many ports a MacBook has these days

Secondly those previous attempts at tackling Nintendo were different to this portable PC movement in one very significant way. There's already an established library of games for PC. People who own a Steam Deck aren't sitting around hoping that it sells enough units that third party devs will pay attention and port their games to it. The games are already ported. Hell, PC is usually the default platform

In any case, Steam Deck isn't perfect and there is still space for platforms like the Switch. But the space the Switch as it currently exists has is shrinking by the day. Because it is underpowered. It would incredibly stupid for Nintendo to just.... not do anything and risk people slowly drifting to Steam Deck, Steam Deck 2 or whatever clones come out that are cost competitive. Because they will come out

And if you think they won't, this is the same Nintendo who rushed out the GBC in a few months because they were worried about Wonder Swan. I am pretty confident Nintendo is far less relaxed about Steam Deck than you are

What if Nintendo doesn’t replace the switch with something better. Ever think about that? I personally think the Switch will stay as is and what ever comes next will be just a console to compete with what ever the other companies put out there.

@skywake Don't put words in people's mouths! I never said Nintendo owned the patents for USB type C lmfao.

Cool I stand corrected the Steam Deck can plug into the tv via a USB-C to HDMI adapter. But it's still a fiddly tiresome way compared to the Switch which you simply quickly slide into it's dock!

The handheld space isn't shrinking for Nintendo. Learn maths - Steam Deck has sold around a tiny 4 million units compared to a massive 132 million Switch units. Nintendo has zero serious competition in the handheld space!

Nintendo practically own the handheld segment. Your younger less knowledgeable unlike myself and others who have been gaming since back in the SNES days. Game Gear, Atari Jaguar, etc all failed with handhelds. As did mighty Sony with PSP Go & PS Vita!

Obviously the Switch sucessor will be much more powerful than the almost 7 years old Switch, it isn't rocket science lol.

@Atomic77 Some people have suggested Nintendo will release two major hardware systems in 2024. Nintendo aren't going to give up the very lucrative handheld segment so a Switch successor in the very near future is a given!

But who knows Nintendo could also bring something else in 2024. Something unique different that's not really been implemented in mainstream gaming yet.

@Kingchin
Noy sure why you needed to get all defensive. The simple fact is the Switch as a concept is not unique or something Nintendo owns and others can't follow. They weren't the first to have a portable device you can also plug into a TV, they won't be the last

What they have is a decent library of content and a solid user base. They used to also have a relatively decent spec for the form factor and price. They no longer have a relatively decent spec, and that gap grows by the day, and their library advantage is not much of an advantage now PC portables exist

So all they have now is the user base. Which is something that can and will shift over time. Again, I don't think Nintendo is dismissing Valve to the same degree you are. Some device like that could very easily kill Nintendo's dominance over the medium term if don't release or mismanage the release of new hardware to fill the void

Here's the thing Switch is unique in its' Hybrid innovation on how and what setups you use to game TV or Portable. Trying to dimiss the Switch isn't not helpful for a system that most are trying to catch up to in sales volume and market shares and amount of units sold and being gamed on. Let's be honest alot of those that want to talk about other portable consoles already have some bias against the Switch for reasons unknown but to themselves. And the argument it's underpowered is what NintenDoomed fandom always use but gotten no where in 7 years of Nintendo Switch sales and it's still still selling. And with Holiday 2023 that just helps Switch more to grow. And with Switch 2024 that just solidifies how good of a platform it is and how much others emulate and trying to replicate it just goes to show you how good this innovation has become a leader for them. The fact others emulate the design and look tells Nintendo not only did up others but showed risk innovations has paid off in big ways to them and games and market shares. None of those others can say or tout this at all for all the bashing of Switch. Just stating the obvious the Switch is a Nintendo BOOM for them and it couldn't be better.

Most Switch games other then the demanding games don't require a ubber power Switch to play. Buying a PS5 won't improve game play other then drain the wallet when a games isn't GPU demanding and most Switch games don't do this. As to what is entrenched is a opinion here not something quantitative per-say. This analogy is a false comparison here.

Don't worry guy, it'll TOTALLY be announced next year, it was supposed to be announced and launched this year but it was delayed yet again! This is entirely 100% accurate but I have no sources for proof but everyone can trust me because I have a cute cat.

Yeah, nah. This is a crap take. You think I'm somehow biased against the Switch and presumably Nintendo? What a steaming load. I've bought every Nintendo console since the DS. The only consoles I've ever had that were not Nintendo were the Sega Master System and Playstation. I've been a member of this fan forum for almost 15 years now. If anything I'm heavily biased TOWARDS the Switch

But I'm also not blind. When the Switch launched the PS5 didn't exist, the Steam Deck wasn't possible. The closest competitors to the Switch at launch were on one side the PS4 and on the other Nintendo's own 3DS. In the PC portable space in 2017 the closest thing would've been the GPD Win 2 and its specs, well, lets just say reviewers were keen to show off in-game streaming and GC emulation

That isn't the landscape the Switch is in now or going forwards. It's far more competitive. Again, on the portable side these days the Steam Deck exists at prices that more-or-less overlaps with their price. So now instead of portable PCs being mostly good for streaming and emulation they're more than a "generation" ahead of the Switch spec and at prices that people are willing to pay for consoles

I'd also note here that when I say this this isn't about Valve or PC gaming. Even when I mentioned the larger library these platforms have vs the kind of portables Nintendo used to compete with like the Vita, PSP, Wonder Swan, NGage. Valve is at the very least a very visible proof of how far things have progressed. A company can release a full x86 portable platform which is only about a generation behind and be price competitive. If I was Nintendo? Yes I would be worried about Valve. But I'd also be worried about Microsoft, Sony, Asus, Samsung, Dell or really anyone else potentially making the same play.

Then on the other side PS5 is also flirting with the Switch's price point and is an order of magnitude more powerful than the PS4 was. As I said in an earlier post, the Switch is not the Wii U or Wii of this generation in terms of power. It is the 3DS of this generation. The bigger that gap becomes the more people will be swayed across

It only takes one different platform to stick and all of a sudden Nintendo finds itself in a rapid sales decline, like they did against the PS3/360 late in that generation's cycle. The longer they hold out the greater that potential is

What are you even talking about. Of course most Switch games don't require a lot of power, games that require a lot of power generally don't get released on Switch. And the ones that do tend to be compromised and as a result review poorly. And a poorly reviewed game is basically an invisible game

Also, drain the wallet? Come off it. Right now I could go out and buy a PS5 with SpiderMan 2 for $700AU. The Switch OLED goes for $540AU although, I would note, it appears the new Mario Kart bundle cuts the price to $450AU. Price cuts? You better believe they're coming. But probably more to the point if I was to go out and buy Howarts Legacy (which I just did BTW)? It's not cheaper on Switch. I mean, the RRP is $89AU for PS5/XBox Series X and the deluxe edition on Switch and $79AU for PS4/XBox Series S and Switch regular. Except it's currently on sale and discounted on everything but Switch. I got it on Steam for $54AU because as much of a fan of Nintendo I am I'm not blind, I'm not going to pay more for less

But really, to tie this whole post together, I think the main thing is that I think you fundamentally misunderstand where people asking for new Nintendo hardware are coming from. When I say the Switch is underpowered and overpriced for what it is and that they should release new hardware? I'm not attacking the Switch or Nintendo. If anything I'm saying the opposite. What I'm saying is that I like Nintendo's software platform and I want to see it continue with healthy support. Also that I want to see Nintendo's content shown in the best light, I want to see what Nintendo could do with more horsepower.

I don't think it's "NintenDoomed" to say that I want better hardware from Nintendo so they can continue to have hardware dominance deep into the 2020s. I don't think I'm showing my bias against Nintendo when I say I'll pay more for better hardware from Nintendo and will be first in line for it. And I think you really, really have to twist your perspective to argue the opposite

@skywake You have to be careful with the mindset of wanting to see what games look like with more horsepower as opposed to appreciating what they squeeze out of a system. We'll be getting remasters of remasters talking like that lol
(/s - mind you, Last of Us 2 seems a tad unessecary to me...)

@GrailUK
True. With that said I'm being accused of being "biased against Nintendo" here for expressing my desire to spend more money on Nintendo hardware. I guess I should also be careful of saying I don't want to buy the same game over and over again. Although I guess if wanting to buy new consoles is "biased against Nintendo" then maybe buying the same game again is the same?

I'm confused. What is the "correct" Nintendo fan position on something like Link's Awakening HD for example? I guess it's a bit like an audiophile snob kind of thing? If you want to enjoy Link's Awakening HD it must be played on an original and working grey coloured Nintendo and saying you enjoy it any other way means you aren't a "true fan"? I mean if we're not allowed to express our interest in new hardware as fans of Nintendo then surely the same applies to software right?

but seriously, I think we all know that as soon as Nintendo does announce new hardware people like @SwitchForce will be lining up like the rest of us. This argument isn't about what the market looks like, what trends are happening or what Nintendo should do next. This argument is between one side who treats Nintendo's PR statements like some kind of religious text and the other side who is a tad more aware of how the sausage is made.....

edit: for what it's worth I don't really want to see remasters of titles like TotK/BotW on "Switch 2". I don't think it's really necessary. I wouldn't mind seeing them run better, maybe do DLSS or potentially HDR. But I don't think we need a remaster and if they charged full retail for one I'd skip it. However, I wouldn't mind another Zelda built in a similar way that maybe takes a different art direction and has a world that's larger and a little bit less of an empty wilderness

Pong 8K VR Ultimate when?

I'm not sure if Last of Us 2 even has a huge overlap with Switch players, but some games with high performance requirements like BG3 and FF7 remake definitely do since lots of games in those series are already on Switch and sell fairly well. Personally I'd just like Nintendo to be able to handle games like that which are a 'good fit' and ideally which have high performance requirements for good reasons rather than just being unnecessarily photo-realistic.

@skywake you’re supposed to not ask questions and buy it all. Only then can you complain. It’s the Nintendo Way!

All joking aside, I do think it’s all connected to conversations that people are either exhausted by or overly enthusiastic about. I think most people want new hardware. I also think most people want to see how much of an increase it’s going to be, so if you see something like TOTK or BOTW, it’s so easy to see the difference.

I also think that that conversation about remakes being worth it is going to come back with a vengeance next year with at least two high-profile remasters already announced for Nintendo Switch. Granted, I think 3DS and GC remakes are a lot more welcome than other system remakes, but that won’t stop it. Having new hardware would end that conversation.

Also, I’m all for Kirby Theory suggesting new hardware in 2024.

Also on PR statements vs internal discussions. Obviously I don't work at Nintendo and I'm certainly not aware of what they're saying internally. I don't work in the gaming industry at all as it happens. But, as some of you likely know, I am a developer and as such I've been in my fair share of product development meetings. Where you figure out requirements, discuss what competitors are doing in that space and work out how we're going to build and sell this new feature/product

I can tell you now, what you say publicly and to clients is a well crafted message. You're not going to go out and tell your clients what your competitors are doing or what you're worried about. You don't talk publicly about ideas that are still cooking and might not land (well, if you can control sales you don't). But you do discuss these things internally. Internally you're talking about why that particular client pulled the pin, what you could do to get similar clients across the line next time

..... personally I'd rather just build stuff than sit in on those discussions but still. That's what it looks like behind the curtain. So when I say I'm fairly confident Nintendo is concerned about Steam Deck? That's where I'm coming from. Of course they're concerned. Maybe not by the Steam Deck specifically but certainly by the possibility of hardware of that spec and price existing on shelves alongside them. Nintendo is 100% not having board meetings where everyone is sitting around the table saying "Switch sales are good last year, lets not do any hardware R&D. See you next year"

For some context, here is the story of the GBC. Echos the Switch today I think:

@skywake I really, really don’t get why people think Nintendo isn’t scared of the Steam Deck. Nintendo can still off the back of their own first-party games, but that only goes so far. It’s just business. Anytime a competitor comes along, there’s concerns.

@ElRoberico Because portable PC Steam Deck is no threat to Nintendo! Steam Deck - 4 million sold, Switch - 133 million sold 👍🏾

Nintendo have always dominated the handheld segment. Even Sony with the PS P and PS Vita couldn't challenge Nintendo!

You must be recently new to gaming... Go do intensive research on gaming history then come back to comment's. As your comment sounds like a rookie or a troll stirring the pot.

@Kingchin I've been playing video games, especially Nintendo games, for over 25 years. I know sales numbers and trends. Don't dare tell me that I'm not new to gaming and stirring the pot. Maybe you should do some more research and not omit the PSP too.

Anyone who's going about business smartly are aware of the competition, even if it doesn't seem like it. Hell, Sega was once scared of the Atari Jaguar of all things! You never underestimate your competition if you want to stay ahead.

@Kingchin
You should probably look at gaming history if you're going to cite "gaming history". Because your "logic" here doesn't really stack up against what has actually happened to companies with dominant platforms like the Switch in the past

Again, I posted a video that showed what Nintendo was thinking and did with the GB/GBC back in the day. That's not the only example. The PS2 sold as well as the Switch, arguably better for the time and compared to its competition. Did Sony not put R&D into the PS3? Did they just say "PS2 is selling well so lets stay the course?". No. They took the competition, particularly from Microsoft, very seriously. How well do you think Sony would've faired through the late 2000s if they had just kept the course with the PS2? Probably not very

And on the portable side, what about the DS? I mean we know the 3DS stumbled out of the gate and at the end of the generation their competition ended up drying up. But what happens in an alternate history where the 3DS doesn't exist? Nintendo just, make a DSi XXL or DSi OLED or something. Maybe in that alternate reality the Vita isn't basically DoA and Sony builds on some of the market they carved out with the PSP. Or maybe portable gaming dies entirely to be swallowed up by mobile gaming

Hell, what about the Wii and Wii U? The Wii was very successful, not Switch tier but still. Do you think Nintendo would've been better off not releasing the Wii U? I mean we know now that the Wii U didn't land but do you think, as you are suggesting, that releasing new hardware after the Wii was a mistake? That Nintendo would've been better off just assuming Wii sales would continue indefinitely? Because that's what you're arguing here.

With the Wii U specifically I'd argue that, if anything, the mistake was that they held out too long. That they did precisely what you're suggesting they should do again with the Switch. The Wii U would've landed significantly better if it had been 1-2 years earlier to the market and a simpler product. Say late 2010, Wii U internal spec, redesign the controller slightly or something but without the screen. Maybe go JoyCon style, dual gyro, fully wireless. Have the releases around that time shuffle to accommodate. Mario Galaxy 2 is dual release, Skyward Sword goes HD. Thing comes out and basically undercuts Kinect

You can't tell me that product does worse than Wii U

Yes, because we all know nothing ever changes. Just like it was impossible Nintendo could ever have a console which sold less than 20 million units or even that they could do badly after selling 100 million Wiis.

Also, PlayStation Portable sold the same number of units as GBA — Nintendo kept ahead by putting out DS a mere 3 years after GBA, but it's hard to say Nintendo was 'dominating' during that overlap time even if they were winning; Nintendo was almost certainly stressing about it back at Nintendo board meetings.

Technically of course the current handheld gaming segment is dominated by mobile not Switch (by a significant amount), but 'will Nintendo console users migrate to mobile gaming' is a very different question then the current 'will Nintendo console users migrate to some type of Switch-clone that has more bang-for-the-buck'. In the second case, you get near-identical (but better) functionality than Switch and all you lose is Nintendo exclusives. I personally would hate to lose Nintendo exclusives but the Wii U era showed that a large portion of Nintendo-console-buyers can survive without Nintendo exclusives. To be honest, as much as I personally am a Nintendo fan, I was one of those umpteen millions of people who ignored the Wii U era. I became a PC gamer instead; if the Switch hadn't won my back I might sadly be a mobile gamer right now like many of my friends are. 😝 Or a portable PC gamer. Most of us fans are an unreliable group.