Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

I don't know each company's financial situation but I know Nintendo has tons of money in the bank. Nintendo also likes to approach situations from different angles. Just because Nintendo doesn't have the money, doesn't mean they can't work out the deal.

You're right, but we are talking about NX here. It is a colossal decision that I don't think will be affected by their hardware, it will be affected by their sales.

That is Nintendo's decision. I don't see how it would matter if AAA "Mature" games are selling well on their system, why would that change how Nintendo makes software? The big worry is that if Nintendo doesn't start making changes to the way they make/sell their hardware, they may not be in a position to choose what software they make. If they cannot sell hardware, they will have to go 3rd party. If they go 3rd party, it will be even more difficult for them to stay "family friendly." They will face even more competition and get less income from their sales. (Store Fronts and Console Companies get a cut of their game sales) Nintendo being more inviting of 3rd Parties could actually help Nintendo keep their image, because we know Nintendo can't sell hardware on their own.

Why?

Having Money can help a deal but that isn't the only thing they can offer. Also they could go for games Microsoft and Sony aren't going for. The big ones are Call of Duty and Battlefield, but there are other games Nintendo could make deals for.

Well earlier, you were talking about that.

If you are talking about Nintendo Brand image, then I don't see how Bayonetta and Devil's Third got made if Nintendo wanted to stay away from "mature" titles. Those are still Nintendo games and fall under their brand more than a standard 3rd party game would.

Because Microsoft and Sony make different games than Nintendo. Microsoft makes a lot of Shooters, such as Halo and Gears. Sony makes a lot of Action Adventure games, such as Uncharted and God of War. Nintendo makes a lot of Platformers, such as Mario and Donkey Kong Country. Their image is not affected by 3rd party companies. As businesses they also cater to different crowds but their audience is the same. they are trying to get people to play their games. No matter what someone's age or content preference each company is trying to get people to buy and play their game. Just because Nintendo makes "cartoony" platformers doesn't mean they don't want money from the people that enjoy bloody gore filled shooters.

@Project_Dolphin
But each company has their own image. EA has their image. Activision has their image. Ubisoft has their image. Why would Nintendo letting 3rd Parties sell products on the NX harm Nintendo's image? EA's bad business practices haven't negatively affected Xbox or PlayStation. I don't really see what Nintendo's image has to do with allowing customers the option to buy 3rd Party games on a Nintendo system.

EDIT: Also this was bothering me

I don't need this information. I have enough that I am trying to research and learn that I don't need to investigate Microsoft's finances.

All of this talk of Nintendo having to radically change their approach ignores one key thing about the market. Their competitors are not storming the gates.

People talk about how their portable line is going to die because of mobile but they ignore the fact that mobile has been around for a while. Mobile is not on the rise, mobile has become rather flat. Then on the other side of them there's Sony who is pulling out of the portable game entirely. So if you want a device for playing something like Smash Bros while waiting for a train? Nintendo has a monopoly on that.

Then in the home console space it seems as though nobody can see more than 1m in-front of them. People look at this years sales and conclude that's how it's going to be for the next decade. But the reality of it is that things change and can change quickly. In 5 years time we might be at the point where Microsoft is more of a competitor to Valve than Sony.

At the end of the day the simple fact is that Nintendo has some of the best selling IP on the market. And despite all the whine and doom they have continued to treat their IP well. That's one hell of a thing to have and the Wii U sold, poorly as it was, for only that. If Nintendo can put themselves to be level with Microsoft or Sony in some of the other aspects? They've got a leg-up on the competition. Simple as that.

@Project_Dolphin If NX were to replace the 3DS, then it was planned from the beginning to replace both systems, which is likely. This means NX is the "shared platform with handheld and console form factors" that NeoGaf covets so much.

NX Console will launch first in that case. NX Handheld in either Holiday 2017 or Spring 2018 (yes, that means the 3DS gets dragged to its 7th birthday, which I think there's just enough software to do).

Summary: they expect 3DS sales to suffer but not too badly, and Wii U sales to drop like a stone.

That is entirely consistent with Nintendo wanting to give you the perception that 3DS has a future and Wii U does not. That is the perception they are deliberately feeding today, and that is the perception that will drive those financial numbers. They will want you to hold that perception whether the NX is a home console or a portable. Reality is, they cannot afford to lose their primary gaming revenue stream. They need people to continue to buy 3DS. You don't seem to want to take their business needs into account, but there it is.

Isn't it strange that Nintendo would not give even a hint about what the NX is, even now? When did they ever wait so long to reveal any significant details? Isn't it strange that they would not even say whether it is a home console or a portable? You seem to assume there will be a big reveal soon, before the holiday shopping season. Why make a reveal with nothing to sell? We may be waiting a loooong time for NX details to emerge.

I don't think this carefully cultivated perception is false. Right now, I'm leaning towards the NX being a premium portable. As you yourself said, a Wii U class portable is technically feasible. And Zelda U is meant to run on the Wii U. But it will not be as cheap as the 2DS, so the 2DS/3DS line will live on as Nintendo's budget portable gaming line. With a huge installed base and non-HD games being easier to develop, it will continue to be a viable platform with new game releases. As for the Wii U, it's obvious that Nintendo has given up on it. The main difference between our expectations is that I don't believe Nintendo has a home console replacement for it. They will abandon the home console market for the time being.

@cwong15
I don't think there's much reason to believe that Nintendo is deliberately misleading their investors and consumers in that way. Well, unless you want to hold onto your theory that the NX is a portable. Then by all means believe what I believe isn't far off a conspiracy theory.

@Project_Dolphin
I didn't say Nintendo had "the best selling IP". I said that they had some of the best selling IP. And frankly there's not much you can say to make a case against that. It's an outright fact that Nintendo has some of the best selling IP in the industry. Period.

Even ignoring the relative install bases entirely here are the sales of recent games from different IPs. Across all platforms these games appeared on. I don't think there's much disputing the fact that Nintendo's IP sells well:
GTA V: 53mill
CoD: AW: 21mill
FIFA 16: 15mill
Pokemon X/Y: 14mill
Assassin's Creed IV: 13mill
Smash Bros 3DS/Wii U: 12mill
Mario Kart 7: 12mill
Fallout 4: 12mill
Star Wars: Battlefront: 11mill
The Last of Us: 10mill
Animal Crossing: New Leaf: 9mill
Mario Kart 8: 7mill
The Witcher 3: 5mill

@Project_Dolphin
Well, I haven't been paying attention to all your arguments in this thread. I don't think Nintendo would have that big of a problem getting the big 3rd Party companies interested in their console if the console had enough power and was easy to develop for. Making exclusive deals is up to how aggressive Nintendo wants to be with their next Home Console. There are deals to be made and Microsoft and Sony don't take all the deals they could. Nintendo has been on good base with a few publishers that they could work out deals with them at the start then expand and go for the bigger ones.

GTA V did not sell that many to consumers, that's units shipped which isn't the same as how many people bought the game. Here let's look at these IP stats.
Mario franchise sales to date: 528.522 million
Pokemon: 279 million
Call of Duty: 250 million
GTA: 235 million
Did you also know Wii sports is the best selling game of all time? 82.78 million copies sold.

@PVTAngrybird
1. All the numbers are from the same source
2. I was talking about relative performance not the exact figures
3. My point was about current performance of IPs
4. Yes I know Wii Sports is one of the best selling games of all time, but that's not recent

@Project_Dolphin
I said that Nintendo has some of the best selling IP on the market. You made a point of disagreeing with me. You started that comment by saying "Some of, yes. Not the best". But I never said "the best" so and there's no arguing the fact that their IP does sell well.

If you want to make a point of disagreeing with me the very least you could do is actually disagree.

I still believe nintendo just waits until sony and microsoft ship their new stuff. From there on out, they need to support that for a while. Straight after, nintendo shows what it has and the other guys don't get to copy it that quickly because they can't abandon their just released new stuff, so nintendo will have some space for themselves to move around in.

I hope they're going to do something unique with the nx again. It's part of the appeal.

@erv Surely that would mean a December NX reveal at the earliest?

@erv That's assuming Microsoft and Sony are paying a lot of attention to what Nintendo is doing. I don't think they are. Both have been doing the ''same'' for more than a decade and we know, or at least can guess, what their future plans are. They won't drastically change their systems to copy what Nintendo is doing. You're also assuming that Nintendo is going to successfully change the way we play video games. I'm not sure if that's a given either.

I still think the reveal will be in September.

@Project_Dolphin
Except that what you're saying isn't correct. You're contradicting yourself. You can't say that you agree when I say that they have some of the best selling IP on the market. Then start talking about how they're being "easily outsold". Outside of FIFA, CoD and GTA there aren't many franchises that rival Nintendo's best selling IP. Even with the lower install bases of this current console generation.

On the multi-platform charts games like Pokemon and Smash Bros outsell most of the popular multi-platform franchises. Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, Fallout. Basically everything that's not CoD. On the single platform charts? Even with the lower install base games like Splatoon and Super Mario Maker have outsold first party exclusives on the PS4 and XBOne.

There is no argument. You are indisputably incorrect when you try to argue that Nintendo's first party IP is not popular. The numbers don't lie, especially when they still come out positive for Nintendo on the Wii U of all platforms.

@Octane I'm not so sure. Everything from the d-pad, the shoulder buttons, the analogue stick, the wiimote (into playstation move) got copied from them. I'm sure they don't want that to happen as much as it does.

@Grumblevolcano it wouldn't surprise me. I don't expect anything sooner. Just some news to hold us over into the holiday end of year season.

@erv I think we've reached the point where nothing would be surprising in that regard, even something like NX announced in March 2017 with delay to November 2017.

@erv That's not true. Directional buttons and control sticks existed before Nintendo even started making video game consoles. I believe they were the first to implement shoulder buttons, but they weren't the first to invent those other things.

@Octane as long as it's this year.

You have to talk about it someday Mr Kimishima! -shakes fist-

@Project_Dolphin
I'm pretty damn sure that Sony and Microsoft would love Nintendo's games on their consoles. The reason they've "never asked" is for the same reason why Sony doesn't ask for Halo to appear on their platform. Or why Nintendo doesn't ask for Uncharted. These guys are platform holders, they need to have their platforms sell. They're not going to let their IP exist on their competitors platforms. If Zelda and Mario were on the PS4 I wouldn't be here speculating about the NX, I'd go out and buy a PS4.

As for your other nonsense point about how Nintendo's games sell less than every other publisher combined? Well sure, but that's true of every publisher. It's a non-point. Nintendo is far bigger then Rockstar, they're bigger than EA and Activision. Infact just for your amusement here's a list of the top 10 game publishers in 2015 by revenue:

#1 Sony
#2 Tencent (Unreal Engine and LoL if you were wondering)
#3 Microsoft
#4 Nintendo
#5 Activision/Blizzard
#6 EA Games
#7 Namco Bandai
#8 King (yeah, Candy Crush puts them this high up the list. Damn)
#9 Ubisoft
#10 GungHo (Puzzles and Dragons, it's Japan's Candy Crush)

So once more, you are indisputably incorrect