Come On, Where Are The Composer Credits in 'Nintendo Music'?

Not defending this at all, but…isn’t this a Japanese culture thing? Like where the work of the individuals is largely lumped into one sum and one credit rather than individuals getting credited?

Again, not defending the lack of crediting here and I think it should be here. I’m just asking for clarity.

Why does everything have to be a problem for some people? The app isn’t even 24 hours old and people already feel the need to complain.

There's a thread I found on Twitter from someone with some insight on the subject. It doesn't change the issue but it does shed some light on into a few things.

I wish they'd give credit to who helped to make this music. It's probably something pertaining to Japanese culture, like others have said- but I still think it would be cool to give credit to those who composed the songs.

I'm still wondering why this app exists. Most of Nintendo's games soundtracks (and more) are available someplace else (Spotify, iTunes. YouTube, ...). There is literally no business legitimity for it.

@Astropez Alright, I'll go up to bat. From a business standpoint, this makes sense for a couple of reasons:

• It allows for Nintendo to have a legitimate means of distributing music(the obvious reason).
• It means they have more control over said music.
• It gives more value to their online service, showing that there more perks to using it other than old games and multiplayer.
• It's financially better than using a place like Spotify, which tends to pay peanuts when it comes to residuals. Not to mention, $20 a year is going to be a more enticing price than Spotify Premium's $144 a year to the average consumer.
• It's a boon in terms of kid safety(aka their major audience), giving younger Switch owners a means to access their favorite songs without worry of predatory ads or inappropriate content.

I was immediately disappointed by the fact it doesn’t show who composed what in this app. Sure you can just look it up online but why not just include the credits here? Nothing stops Spotify from including not only the band members involved but also producers and session musicians etc. I’m sure Nintendo could easily credit the composers at the very least.

@Astropez not officially, though, and they're usually either remixes or not at the right volume, length, or even quality we want them at. That, and YouTube and Spotify are a tad bit scummy to listen to music on. This is a good thing.

I might get some flack for this, as I feel like my opinion is not going to be particularly popular. I'm just one guy whose perspective is not the gospel truth, so if you disagree with me, kindly do so in a respectful manner. I'm not above being convinced as to why I'm wrong.

But I don't always understand the obsessive need to get credited in entertainment media when that doesn't really apply to any other field of work. Eating is more important to our survival as a species than video games. But none of us knows the chef who cooks our food when we go to a restaurant, or the farmer who grew the fruits and vegetables we buy at the grocery store.

If I buy a wooden rocking chair at the furniture store, I don't know the name of the artisan who crafted it, or the lumberjack who chopped the tree down, or the truck driver who delivered the logs to a warehouse for processing. Why do we put people who work in entertainment media on such a pedestal, as if their work is more important than anyone else's?

What about the names of every person who has ever been deployed in the military in our lifetime, fighting to preserve our freedom?

I know people were upset Grant Kirkhope was not credited in the Mario Movie, but surely we have to draw a line somewhere. If he was properly credited, who's to say the Rare developer that gave DK a tie and Diddy Kong a red hat wouldn't also complain that his designs were used in the movie without crediting him? King Bob-Omb makes a cameo in the movie--what about random Nintendo employee number 2637 who left the company 10 years ago but was the one who suggested King Bob-Omb should have a mustache? Where does it end? Credits would be 30 minutes long and have 10,000 names.

It's like when I beat Little Nightmares and had to sit through the longest unskippable credits sequence I've ever seen in my life. As an American consumer of the game, I don't think it's necessary to show me the names of everyone who helped market the game in France and Germany and Japan and China and Korea and the UK and Mexico, et cetera.

I never pay that much attention to names in the credits, unless I'm really curious about a voice actor or something. In a movie or TV show or game, the credits move by so fast that it would be impossible to notice every single person who contributed without pausing every couple seconds. Not a single person does that.

If Grant Kirkhope's name had been included in the Mario movie, it would have been a sweet personal gesture to him, but that's it. He didn't work on the movie any more than whoever came up with the Tanooki Mario sound effects used in the movie did.

I've heard arguments that this sort of thing can prevent workers from being able to put their work on a resumé, but I disagree. That's why jobs ask for references. Someone might not be credited in a movie if they only worked on it for 3 months of its 2-year development, but that doesn't mean the director wouldn't still write them a letter of recommendation.

If someone loves the Donkey Kong Country soundtrack and wants to know who composed it, they can spend two seconds Googling it to find David Wise's name. I think it's a bit of an artificial outrage by people with good intentions making it a bigger issue than it really is.

I agree with the sentiment, but most of these albums are composed by a team of composers and tying individual tracks to composers would be challenging. Though an easy work around would be to list “Nintendo Sound Team” as the composer and make a list of all composers who worked on the project available somewhere in the app.

@N00BiSH thanks for sharing that, interesting lil read. Wish Nintendolife shared that instead, but it would get less engagement.

As long as it is free for Switch Online members, I am glad it exists. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Why this wasn't an issue in Smash Bros. starting with Brawl? Especially with music from third-party series involved.

EDIT: I see a few comments below saying the credits on the Sound Tests of Smash, but I need to address something there.
Those credits belong to the arranger or the arrangement supervisor (the person/people responsible for adapting the song to Smash), for composer credits (the person/people who came up with the song in the first place) it mostly says "Composer: (company name)", while in some cases list "Arrangement: (company name)" despite the fact the arranger was already mentioned.

Sure the composers are listed on the credits but for the most part you cannot really see in-game what they specifically composed.

Let me use a third-party composer as an example: Tee Lopez is listed on the credits but you cannot see his name as the composer of "Lights, Camera, Action! (Studiopolis Zone Act 1)" from Sonic Mania. All you get from the song itself is "Composition and Arrangement copyright: SEGA Games Co., Ltd."
I remember in an interview he said something about his song being in Smash, not mentioning the fact if he cared or not he wasn't properly credited for being the composer of that song, just that he implied he was glad it was included.

My point is, it probably was/is a bigger issue in Smash because it involves music from composers of other video game companies that did music for third-party series and nobody gave a damn they weren't properly credited on their songs, why suddenly they care?

Here we go again people refusing to understand a culture other than their own and demanding the world contort to what they know. If anyone really wants to know (and reality check, most people outside a tiny community like this don't actually care) it's a literal google search away. Every wiki and vgmdb page has the composers listed.

I can't add anymore to my initial comment because I maxed out the character limit again, but I'd like to expand a bit on my thoughts.

It's ironic that someone like Grant Kirkhope can complain about not being credited, and his Twitter post will get thousands of likes, because that's how well-known he already is.

Kirkhope might not be celebrity status, but he's famous enough that he would probably never have to compose another piece of video game music again and could instead travel to various comic conventions and sit in a chair signing autographs at $50 per person.

Meanwhile, there are soldiers buried in unmarked graves because no one could identify their bodies.

If this isn't a double-standard in society, I don't know what is.

I don't mean to single out or vilify Kirkhope. I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of him as a person, but it's nothing to do with this. His feelings are valid, and he's far from the only person in the entertainment industry to complain about not being credited.

If I were in their shoes, I'd complain too, because we've been conditioned to believe that people who make movies, TV, and games deserve special treatment. I see it as a sort of entitlement, but that's not the fault of any individual but rather societal conditioning. We've bred people in the entertainment space--and fans of various forms of media--to feel this way.

Maybe they’ll take that feedback into consideration and add it in a future update? I agree that it would be cool/nice, but damn guys, can we just enjoy something for five minutes?

Since Nintendo now has a music streaming app, I would imagine the did the bare minimum to get it out the door. Likely, to make sure it works for the Switch Online customers first before mass deployment.

As others mentioned, it's Japanese culture, but I hope when they make changes it will include crediting some of the people who worked on it.

@HingryHuppo Two things to note with this:

1. The composers were already credited initially for their music in the games put out by Nintendo, so their names have already been available in the Google database for the past 20 years.

2. I said this in my other comment, but if someone is not credited for their work, they can still get the director they worked under to provide them with a detailed reference explaining their exact job responsibilities. That's what all the rest of us have to do.

Always, ALWAYS someone yapping about something.

This is the way things go in Japanese culture. Employees don’t need nor want personal credit, they perceive it as a team effort.

Let’s just respect their ways instead of trying to change it conform Western beliefs.

Not to be mean to the composers, but it really doesn’t matter that much they’re credited online in other ways. As far as playlists sorted by composer, I’d agree that it’s a missed opportunity, but nothing worth ranting over. Just my opinion

THANK YOU NINTENDO I LOVE THE APP!!!!!

"It doesn't seem right, does it?"

no. it seems morally wrong.

the moment I saw the announcement of Nintendo Music, I thought, "Sounds great, but they aren't serious."

now I know for sure. ✌️

@Not_Soos

"1. The composers were already credited initially for their music in the games put out by Nintendo"

you might want to learn some more about the history of this. ✌️

@AmplifyMJ

"Always, ALWAYS someone yapping about something."

HANG ON. is this the "everyone must respect Michael Jackson" account saying that giving other musicians getting credit for their work is no big deal? 🤔

You are one of my favorite commenters here but IMO that's a bad look. ✌️ Btw I know who I'm talking to, as you've set me straight regarding MJ long ago and I never forgot it.

for the people saying is a simple cultural difference:

the real reason that Nintendo and other publishers all over would not credit their talent is to obscure their identity, so that they don't get "poached" (read: limit their professional opportunities in order to control them and maximize their bottom line.)

it's real normal in American "culture" to get no healthcare from their government OR their full time employer. some of us are even proud of that. does that make it right? who benefits from this arrangement?

@Astropez wdym? I've been hoping for something like this for years!

@-wc- hey, yeah I know you’re right. And when the musicians involved start to question and seek credit, then ok, definitely we have a problem. Just seems like this very quickly went from delight to despair and complaining, I would have liked to the buzz and positivity to have remained just a little bit longer. I’ll not delete my comment, that’s too easy, and I’ll take whatever backlash comes. Thanks 👍

@-wc- have you ever thought about how employers probably just don't wanna deal with employees demanding healthcare, especially if the employee can afford it himself and especially if the specific "healthcare" benefits being pushed forward clash with the company policies (i.e. Hobby Lobby)?

Likewise, some composers simply want to remain anonymous. I've read numerous anonymous poems and stories in school that I wish I knew the author for, but didn't care in the end.

That, or they figured people already knew.

Look, although I'm a die-hard patriot, I'm not proud of several things in our country, and I know we've seen better days. I feel the exact same about Nintendo (despite the Switch being my #1 favorite console). However, there are some things that I just have to let go because, in the end, it won't matter.

Surely this is just a v1. I bet they will bring it along with other options and functions that are missing

@nessisonett there's one just above you making excuses

@nessisonett I'm probably that because I can't be bothered to care. I just want to listen. I'm also the person who doesn't care about the credits of a game unless its interactable ( Bayonetta, Mario, and I think smash does that). Movies I just stop when it's finished.

@N00BiSH I understand not wanting to force western ideals on a foreign entity, but isn't that kind of what they're doing here? At least partially. DKC was developed in the UK and they don't credit David Wise. Japanese company follows Japanese policy, even internationally, I guess.

It all boils down to not wanting to pay royalties

@batmanbud2

"have you ever thought about how employers probably just don't wanna deal with employees demanding healthcare,"

yeah bud, that had occurred to me 😂 ✌️

"Likewise, some composers simply want to remain anonymous."

can you name a videogame composer in question who we know wishes to be anonymous?

✌️i def respect that you dont care btw. I don't think that's at all the issue, here.

@AmplifyMJ

I cut out the middleman and went straight for despair 😂

In all seriousness, i listen to youtube videos lovingly crafted full of legitimately credited Nintendo music and that's what I'll continue to do. thanks, Nintendo!

EDIT - I meant to say, and as usual: I appreciate your candor 👍

Nintendo fans complain about Nintendo, more at 11.
I admit however, that I do enjoy reading through who composed what in Ultimate(and Brawl)'s music section.

@Arkay dude, adding Ultimates OST to the app would rake in literal THOUSANDS of NSO members.

@eaglebob345 Well it's not free if you have to pay for the subscription.

we live in a world where there is a search engine.

There are better ways to acquire the music in this app.

I agree with the general sentiments, but I've got to say I hate phrases like "Why are you like this?" or "Do better." They always come off as obnoxiously entitled and self-righteous.

Nintendo’s single care here is that someone is listening to copyrighted material from the copyright holder (Nintendo). Meanwhile somebody on YouTube or elsewhere listening to the same music and reading the name of the composer lovingly typed into the description is about to get blown up by Nintendo’s claim to copyright. Only now they have PR via this app for their heavy handed legal stance which will doubtless continue

The app is made to listen to music. You want to know who wrote said music, just type in the title and game it comes from in Google, you'll get all the details about it. What's the big deal?

I'm a big fan of art, music and games, I honestly don't think this discussion is either fair nor makes any sense. All these artists work(ed) for Nintendo and they got paid to write this music. Plus it's not like any of them didn't follow a direction set by their management, or used inspiration/sheet music from previous games.

I highly respect and very much appreciate their work, but we are talking about an app that's like a bonus part of NSO ... again relaying bs from sad people on social media who have nothing better to do than complain while half the world is at war...

The credits will be added in due time and until then, they're not hidden or anonymous, but it does take a quick Google search to find them, if you really care.

@Not_Soos

It's an intetesting perspective.

Regarding putting entertainment on a pedestal,
I would argue that you yourself are doing so,
unless you also comment on furniture and culinary websites (which I guess isn't impossible).

And there are celebrity chefs at high end restaurants that are valued by some people.
And that's kind of it, isn't it?
When anyone can do something, like cook a basic rice dish, work in a factory or whatever, it's just not that highly valued, but if it's rarified, like reaching the top of the culinary profession, or producing thought provoking paintings, or creating music, then it's appreciated, and renumerated, more.
So essentially supply and demand.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the human intellect isn't capable of knowing and appreciating every person that's involved in everyday necessities.

There is also obviously more scope in art (and much of the entertainment industry) for individual expression, and in such cases it is natural to be more invested in who the individual is. Some guy working in data entry, not so much.
And of course art touches us on a deeper level than basic everyday things, so again we want to know who made us feel that way.

"there are soldiers buried in unmarked graves because no one could identify their bodies.

If this isn't a double-standard in society, I don't know what is."

Utterly bizarre example to choose, because as the point actually attests, the soldiers couldn't be identified even if they wanted to.
In any case, there are tombs for unknown soldiers.

Unhelpful choice of example aside, it ties back into my point though.
Many millions of people were trained to do what soldiers could do in WW2.
Not so many could do what Alan Turing could, so he's remembered by more people.
That's the sad and unfair reality of it.
The 'market' if you like.

@Not_Soos
Another case where I don't really agree with you but enjoyed reading your thoughts and empathise with your take.

It does seem like a very deliberate omission and seems in line with their recent trend of obscuring their creative forces.
To be honest it is just baffling that I can listen to a 'Cappy' mix but can't listen to a Koji Kondo mix.

Chuffed to bits this app exists regardless.

I love the app but I’ve gotta agree, seeing or filtering or browsing by composer would elevate it to perfection.

Typical awful Japanese practices. You and your work belong to the company.

Certainly big companies do far more egregious things than merely not listing composers,
but simply stating 'culture' is not a valid defence of anything in isolation.

i know the general public dont really care about credits but is that really a reason not to have them? even the smash bros music player has the courtesy of displaying names

chalk it up to NSO deals always being unfinished/bad at first, or sakurai having OCD levels of detail in his games, but a song app that doesnt display composers is just bizarre

Never change, humanity.

@Not_Soos You're incorrectly conflating labor with art. The assembler who helped make a piece of furniture in a factory, and a fry cook at a local grill-bar are laboring and producing valuable goods. But the composer of a piece of music or the author of a story has created art.

Art is about taking inspiration from the world and experiences around us and conveying an idea rather than producing a practical product. While things like furniture and foods can certainly have more refined standards and embellishments in their presentative styles, they will never be the media used to tell stories, or comment on worldly themes like love, grief, war, classism struggles, politics, etc.

Art should be credited whenever possible. It is so much more than simply have a job reference or letter of recommendation based on one's labor...

I could t care less , I enjoy the music I like the app

@greengecko007 ...only if they weren't paid and worked for free. Otherwise, they are just "laboring and producing valuable goods" just like any other worker from any other industry.

If they made those arrangements for free, that's art. Pure art. But they didn't. They were paid by someone else (a company in this case) for making something. That's their job.

Also, if you start getting into the very fine details. What if 15 persons worked on composing an arrangement for one song? Would they need to also explicitly state what exactly each of them made/thought of?

It's just stupid waiting for getting credit for working, like you're entitled to it even after you were already paid for it.

@Olmectron Like the other commenter, you are conflating work/labor with art. While art can be related to labor, they are not interchangeable.

Also, being paid to create art does not void its authenticity. Many of the most famous pieces of art in the world were created because someone commissioned them. The paintings in the Sistine Chapel immediately come to mind.

Suggesting that just because someone is paid to create art that they should have no expectation of being credited is simply laughable.

@greengecko007 I make apps as a developer. I've never been credited nor do I care about being credited. I'm paid for it and that's it.

But I'm a none that isn't famous or anything so I can't complain. I don't want to complain, anyway.

What is laughable is that someone is "entitled" to be given credit because of the industry they work on or because they are famous. But some others aren't because working on a different industry or because they aren't known.

When someone whines about not being given credit but it's already a very famous individual, it sounds to me like "Look at me! I'm already famous enough and get lots of money, but I still need to remember all of you how I did that thing, or how I did 40% of the thing you like so much to watch/listen/read, and I don't care if little Jimmy helped me in the other 60% but I won't comment on that"

Anyway. Whatever.

@greengecko007

"conflating work/labor with art."

you are completely right about this. not that you didn't know that. 👍

this has been a really interesting conversation. I suspect many of the people "on Nintendo's side" here have never actually thought about this topic generally. but maybe I'm being too charitable. 😅✌️

@Olmectron

"If they made those arrangements for free, that's art. Pure art. But they didn't."

to be honest with you, this is an antiquated mindset generally held by upper class elitists, decades or even centuries ago.

i suppose Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Velasquez, Sargent, and Rodin aren't entitled to be credited either, as they were paid for their art and therefore on your exact level as an app developer. 👍

@-wc-

If they deserve credit for their masterpieces, everyone deserve credit for what they do, no mater how "small" you see their jobs when compared to supposed "art".

We need the name of the harvesters in every apple, every tomato and every fruit out there.

Each book, aside from the author, needs to also include the people who operated the printing machines.

We all deserve credit.

@Olmectron

If you want to seriously take up the cause that every worker in some token way receive credit by name, I will back you on that 100%. It sounds transparent, empowering, and wholesome, and I love your idea. 👍✌️

@CANOEberry

I got it, thank you 😊🫡🤫

It might also be a holdover from when game developers were in the credits but as aliases only. Like as a kid when I saw that "YKK" helped make Streets of Rage 2, I figured it was the zipper guy. They did that so that talent didn't get poached which isn't really an issue now, but maybe the norm has stuck?