Random: Miyamoto Made Shigesato Itoi Cry After 'Mother' Pitch

Mother seemed to have a really rocky start with this story and programming stories told from Iwata. It's awesome to see it all worked out.

I thought this article was going into a “tears of joy” route, based on how it mentioned that Miyamoto rarely praises anyone, and it was still averted with no praise to Itoi given. This article was a roller coaster, and I enjoyed the ride. Well written.

I wish Miyamoto was the producer of recent Mario games. The newer Mario games seem to be much less fun compared to Super Mario Bros. 1-3, Super Mario World and Super Mario 64.

After the absolute masterpiece that is Mother 3 (imo), I thank the Gods he got the chance to even start this amazing franchise.

So Miyamoto-dono was thinking about the project management load. Most people don’t pitch ideas to management and get the reaction that is “ hey this is so amazing… here is unlimited money!” …this is normal project management. And Miyamoto worked to find a team to fit his needs so I don’t see what the problem is. Yes it is disheartening sometimes when others don’t see your “vision” (granted that is the entire point of the pitch) but welcome to business, you are competing with everyone else for access to a company’s resources…only poorly managed companies hand out blank checks. I will bet if Miyamoto-dono told his own story he would have a number of times before he became a superstar creator within Nintendo (and even after) where management was wondering if his ideas would pan out (and were practical instead of throwing money at him). Don’t spin this as worse than it is.

@Don Did you not see mario wonder?

Wasn't there a story about Miyamoto being made to come into Yamauchis office to apologise for having doubts about Mother 2? I swear I read that somewhere

Edit: i must have imagined it

Miyamoto is such a difficult person to put into words, I know he is increasingly controversial but there's a reason he's so respected. Having said that, I think his words probably pull a little bit too much weight and that younger creators should be given more freedom at Nintendo, which I think has happened. It's important to keep the spirit he brought alive but also not to simply adhere to it. After all, in this case, if Miyamoto really was lacking in enthusiasm Itoi was still successful in the end. The Mother series while not being a sales powerhouse has had an enormous influence on the world of videogames.

@Zeldinion
I played it but felt the levels and graphics are like New Super Mario Bros Wii and U. I felt Super Mario Bros 3 was so amazing with the powerups, new worlds and enemies and Super Mario World had different secret exits, castles and memorable enemies. I guess the Mario franchise is getting tiresome with the same enemies and worlds. I wish they could make another game similar to Super Mario Bros 2, that was a real refreshing direction although I know it was not originally a Mario game.

@Don Bruh, have you played Mario Odyssey and Mario Wonder? I'd argue they better than most of the games Miyamoto was the producer for.
Only game I can really name that I think is better is Super Mario World.

@Don Galaxy 1 & 2, Odyssey, and Wonder were all terrific and right up there with those classics.

Ironic that Mother 1’s tagline is “No Crying Until the End,” but Itoi would end up crying about Mother before it even started.

I feel like that’s intrinsic with the Japanese culture, especially those in business. Not that I like it though. Too cold and unappreciative feeling imho.

@mr_somewhere You may be vastly overestimating its influence outside of its niche fanbase(which includes myself), and a handful of indie developers.

@Carlore_Preventis Your first sentence kind of rings true in the case of Star Fox Adventures. Rare was well into development of Dinosaur Planet for the N64, but when Miyamoto said that Saber looked like Fox McCloud, they retooled it into what became Star Fox Adventures for the GameCube.

However, due to the impending sale of Rare to Microsoft, they rushed to finish development, and a huge portion of what they had intended to include in the game was left out (such as rescuing Krystal halfway through the game and then being able to play as either her or Fox, or an actual battle against General Scales).

Granted, I love the game, and it's a solid one based on its own merits, but it had so much potential that probably could have come to fruition had it not been retooled into a Star Fox game.

And speaking of Star Fox, I don't know if it was Miyamoto who insisted on it, but the mandatory second screen and gyroscopic controls on the Wii U GamePad did make for a pretty iffy experience with Star Fox Zero. I found that I didn't really need it, so I largely ignored it, since I could still use precision aiming, even when only paying attention to the TV. But it was one creative decision that frankly did not work as well as intended.

Personally, I've never played a Pikmin game before, so I wouldn't know if it's any good or not. But it doesn't really look like the kind of game that would be my cup of tea. That being said, I said the same thing about Animal Crossing, but I fell in love with New Leaf. So maybe I could enjoy Pikmin. But I'm in no hurry to try it out anytime soon, as most of my game time (what little of it I have left) is spent playing more action-adventure games like Genshin Impact or Zelda.

But I do think the old guard at Nintendo, Miyamoto included, really needs to take a step back and let the younger developers start taking the lead on some of these projects. After all, how many great ideas from fresh young talent end up being shelved because the old guard just doesn't "get it," so to speak?

@martynstuff Never happened but considering that Mother 2 fell into development hell and had to be pulled out by Iwata who wasn't even meant to be working on it.

Regardless of how well it can out, would have been troubled enough to be doubt worthy.

@mr_somewhere It did inspire one of the greatest indie games of all time, Undertale. I've only played a little bit of Mother 2 (a.k.a., Earthbound), but I beat Undertale on both a Neutral and True Pacifist run (I refuse to do a Genocide run), and I love that game to death. Still have to play Deltarune, though.

@AstroTheGamosian If Dinosaur Planet wasn't retooled it would be a Microsoft owned IP and sitting at the bottom of a pile of unused IP.

Iwata requested Miyamoto to make a game that used every feature of the WiiU Gamepad. That's why Star Fox Zero used pretty much every feature and button.

Miyamoto and the older developers have stepped back for a long time now. After 3D World, over 10 years ago now Miyamoto said he trusts the teams to operate without his involvement.

Miyamoto headed the Nintendo Garage program and even was the guy who greenlit Splatoon. So he directly gave younger developers an opportunity.

Honestly cut out the the ageism. I hate these awful narrative articles like these spin of a guy who's done nothing wrong. He's handed away his two biggest IP 20 years ago to successors and stopped being involved in them 10 years ago, and people keep saying he needs to step back like he's still in control.

@Culethrax I don't want to come across as rude but it's influenced numerous indie games predominantly, sure, but a lot of those have gone on to have lasting cultural influence, I'd argue that you are underestimating the influence, but that's me.

@mr_somewhere There's a bit of bias involved, that I try to keep in mind, when it comes to the relevancy of niche subcultures. When we spend much of our time consuming content related to the thing, it makes it feel as if it's bigger or more important than it actually is. There's Undertale and then the slew of games that were trying to imitate its success(as far as indies go), but beyond that I can only think of a few neat pieces of content generated by fans.

If the Mother series was as popular or mainstream as many of us like to think it is, we'd have more interest from Nintendo in providing localization or new games. It's not even as big as Metroid, which is popular enough to have helped spawn a genre. But Metroid, like Mother, is still only a tiny slice of the gaming culture pie.

I love Mother as much as the next guy, but there's a reason that Nintendo is really gun-shy about throwing any real resources at it beyond a couple of My Nintendo store items. (HD-2D remaster please)

@Ryu_Niiyama I don’t think anyone’s painting anything as worse than it was.
One bit of context that affects what you are saying about the nature of business pitches is that Itoi and Miyamoto were already well-acquainted at this time, and in fact Miyamoto looked up to Itoi when he was new to the industry.

@Carlore_Preventis not really, he was right, Miyamoto was the best game designer at that time (1989), Pikmin was 12 years later and is completely a different story. Miyamoto was worried about the challenges Itoi was going to have which actually he had, but the dev team behind Mother were geniuses, one of them Iwata.

@Kyloctopus That's Mother 3.

@Ryu_Niiyama This is similar to how I interpreted it. I read it as, "Hmm, this is great. Are you gonna be fully committed to make sure it's as great as can be envisioned? My mind is already racing with everything this might involve. Gotta give 100% from start to finish. PS, to let you know I'm serious too, I already got a team ready for you."

@Thirteen1355 Maybe they used it somewhere in Mother 3’s promo material (nothing I have come across though), but the more often recognized tagline for 3 is “Strange, Funny and Heartrending.”

Here’s the Mother 1 commercial where “No Crying Until the End” originates. https://youtu.be/yQUN7QAnMp0?si=2hr5N4zmkHPtSmbF

@Carlore_Preventis No, you're absolutely right. He is one of my favorite game designers of all time, because he understands simplicity. But he often sticks to it, to the detriment of projects which could have reached greater heights. That being said, his discipline has kept Nintendo steady, but there are definitely firs party Nintendo games which could have been amazing but ended up mediocre by adhering to the Miaymoto ethos. Yoshi's Crafted World pops to mind, and Mario Party Superstars.

I think that Miyamoto's response was realistic and tactful in that he didn't totally shut him down or anything. He was honest and set appropriate expectations. Standard pragmatic management response. But I also understand Itoi's response as a young, passionate professional with big ideas talking to a literal celebrity in the field. Poor guy, I feel for him.

To be fair, Miyamoto isn't necessarily wrong here, even he was quite blunt about it. The first Mother game was remarkably ambitious and forward-thinking for an NES game, even moreso when you take into consideration the fact that Nintendo hadn't made many other RPGs before (the only exception I can think of being Pax Softnica's Ginga No Sannin which itself was a lot smaller in scale). But that just makes it all the more impressive that Itoi, Iwata, and the rest of their team were able to pull it off.

What I got from this article:

• The Earthbound series (or Mother) are a fantastic series of games.
• Miyamoto just told him to maintain his expectations in place (in what some may consider a douchy way) jet, he did find Itoi a team of devs.
• It is well documented that Miyamoto has a pricky way to give feedback and that rarely compliments others (if any)
• Itoi was emotional about the whole thing and cried (nothing wrong with that) still, got to do one of the best games in its respective genre.
• Koizumi is a better dev than Miyamoto

The sun will shine tomorrow (again)

All is cool in the universe.

Sounds like he was quietly supportive. Surely a lot better than most higher ups I've pitched to who immediately jump to needing to know how the project will be good for the bottom line.

Well, he didn't turn him down and did help him get a headstart. Mother 1 does have issues, but I'm so glad we got the series.

That‘s just an honest response from Miyamoto and I‘m pretty sure in the end Itoi was thankful for it.

People who hate on Miyamoto are detestable. This is a man who has been underpaid for at least 40 years. He should have a net worth of at least hundreds of millions of dollars for the masses of IP he has created, but he signed it away to Nintendo because he found something far more valuable than just monetary join. Miyamoto has career and life fulfillment in an stimulating environment.