Nintendo Releases Full Statement After Cancellation Of Smash World Tour

Yikes. I don't care about competitive Smash, but even I know that this is ridiculous. I feel bad for everyone who wanted to participate.

It sucks that these situations keep happening but it's almost hard to not see it coming at this point. Nintendo simply doesn't want to take Smash to the competitive stage, or at least not unless they have the control to do so

Makes sense if Nintendo are holding their own. Smash community will probably lose their mind regardless, tell everyone how they are out there promoting the franchise for Nintendo, complain about the prizes and how Nintendo is destroying the community.

Wow. Nintendo takes to the SWT like Elon Musk to Twitter.

@bluemage1989 Because they are? Not sure what point you're trying to make.

And of course this article completely ignores how apparently the CEO of Panda Global was essentially operating an extortion racket where he basically told TOs they would be shut down if not officially licensed in order to scare them into signing onto the cups https://twitter.com/LDeeep/status/1597728742343778304

Yea definitely encourage people to read the entire story on this. Nintendo by all accounts was supportive for 90% of this until something weird happened, and most of the issues until a point were due to the CEO of Panda allegedly doing shading things behind the scenes (I say allegedly but others have backed this up already as seen in the post above).

Edit: I should note since the article doesn't mention this...there are 2 Tournament Circuits: Smash World Tour, and the Nintendo-Sponsored Panda Cup. SWT is what was shut down, allegedly at the behest of the Panda Cup's CEO.

@Wolfgabe I was wondering if this tournament was Panda Global. Yikes, this sounds bad.

@Wolfgabe Ah interesting. Yeah the article completely ignores the fact Nintendo backed the guy strong arming others.

@Wolfgabe Nintendo is always the bad guy. Always.

So after the recent Helena Taylor (full of it in the end) and Mick Gordon (redemption after years of abuse) stories let's see how many people lose their minds before waiting for the facts.

But also let's make one thing clear regardless: I love Nintendo consoles/games but to pretend Nintendo themselves aren't capable of some shady stuff is just delusional.

Sounds like I’m getting half the story here, I thought Nintendo was supporting this? At least from my memory.

There always has to be some Smash related drama every year. It’s almost like they need to fulfill a quota or something. I don’t care at all for the tournament scene but to throw all of that effort out the window seriously sucks.

Panda was incredibly disgusting here, yes. However, Nintendo had no obligation to shut down this based off the wants of the Panda CEO. Nintendo is just as much to blame as Panda, they just weren’t as devious about it. Idk why people are suddenly acting like this is solely Panda.

alan did tons of shady stuff, threatening other TOs about streaming tourneys and that it would be a shame if they got shut down 2023
https://twitter.com/LDeeep/status/1597728742343778304
***** panda, i loved em so much, but this is just *****.

@KindofaBigDeal omg a sensible comment on a NL’s story/news, I almost have faith in humanity again

Oh no! Anyway…

lol

Man. Nintendo REALLY hates the competitive Smash community don't they?

It's unofficial meaning it is not associate with Nintendo. Still I don't get why Nintendo would cancelled it since it's not them who's losing money here. Those $250 thousands are from the organizer themselves. My guess is either Nintendo cancelled it because third party (Sega, Square Enix, Namco, Capcom, etc.) don't want their characters taking part in a non-organize event or Nintendo don't want to change balance on the characters anymore since most of these events will show skill players using exploit with certain character to take advantage of a match which would had many losing players sending complaints to Nintendo about nerfing such character just like the Villager, Bayonetta, and Meta Knight situation long time ago.

"Let us all defend this poor, helpless billion dollar corporation that loves and cares about us so dearly, just trying to protect its precious billion dollar franchises from the very people that keep them alive!"

That was a joke, by the way, Nintendo fans. Don't turn me into sushi over it. I know the vast majority of you are great and don't worship the company like cult members, but simply love what they create and stand for. I'm talking about ...those fans. You know the ones.

The evangelical cult of Nintendo is very much a real thing, having founded another church in the murkiest depths of Nintendo Life long ago, but it usually only performs its pilgrimages below articles about the one word that shall not be named ...

E M U L A T I O N

Just as Kit and Krysta said, Nintendo is very obsessed with control, and this is just another example of that. That is the only reason why Panda Cup exists.

Man, I went hard with that last comment. My apologies, I'll take my leave now.

Not that I have any stake in the matter, but I think it’s absurd that Nintendo can perform blanket bans on private competitions. I would understand if the hosts are using a modded game or illegal copies, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Well this is about to get interesting

@Wolfgabe this doesn't go well with the agenda for clicks

The lack of details in this article just served to smear Nintendo's name.

@Vil lol. I enjoyed your comment.

@Wilforce why is it absurd that they can? It's their product

This is being absurdly mischaratrized. Here is the to the point break down:

April

SWT - Can we run this thing?
Nintendo - Only if you get certification.
SWT - Can we get that by Nov?
Nintendo - Maybe, not a guarantee. If you plan an event for Nov. you might not be able to run it.

Then SWT goes ahead with plans for an event Nintendo told them they might not be able to have.

Nov

SWT - Hey, we didn't get certification in time, is it cool to go ahead?
Nintendo - No. It is absolutely not okay. We would be forced to shut you down.

SWT goes ahead with plans anyways. Then OUT OF THE BLUE, Nintendo shuts them down without warning!

Now SWT is trying to blame Nintendo and Panda Cup for slowing down the process, or blaming Panda Cup for interfering. Sure, maybe that happened and if so that sucks and isn't right.

But bottom line, Nintendo told them in April that they were taking a huge risk. They ignored them and hoped for the best. Then they told them at the start of the month not to go forward with it, but they tried anyways.

No one to blame but themselves.

@HeadPirate What kind of certification did they need to get and failed to obtain? From whom? Feel free to assume you're just talking to a filthy casual who just watches Smash matches on YouTube and Twitch.

Nintendo really hates free marketing. Period

@Narrator1

From Nintendo. Nintendo of America, Nintendo UK and Nintendo (which are all separate and completely distinct entities) can ALL shut down any English language broadcast of any Nintendo IP by law. For Smash, add Bandai Namco Studios (and IP holders of the licenced IP in Smash, like Solid Snake, might be able to force BN to take down broadcasts as well. I don't have first-hand knowledge of that so I won't say for sure, but that would be standard in a licencing agreement). This is why these discussions are so childish most of the time. Nintendo is always going to be the one doing the enforcing, but who knows who asked them to. For all we know, we're all mad at Nintendo because Bandai Namco told them to uphold their legal obligation to shut down a broadcast, and Nintendo didn't break a multi-billion-dollar contract, give up publishing rights for Smash, and open themselves up to billions in liability by saying no. THE MONSTERS!

So if you want to run a Smash event, you have 2 options:

1) Hope NONE OF THEM notice or care.
2) Apply to Nintendo to have your event certified as an official, licenced event. Nintendo then pushes that to all their subsidiaries and partners.

Until Jan of this year, SWT was going with option one. But now Panda Cup can ALSO shut down Smash streams, and given they pumped a lot of money into becoming the official Smash broadcast partner, they are aggressively doing so.

SWT opened a dialog with Nintendo and started the official process to become a licenced event after 3 months of discussion. Panda Cup's licence is not exclusives, but you can't really blame them for forcing Nintendo to uphold their deal by shutting down unlicenced events.

This whole thing sucks and is bad for Smash, but if this was in any way an unexpected outcome for SWT organizers ... I don't know what to tell you. That's some pretty irresponceable wishful thinking.

@HeadPirate if you actually thought about this instead of thinking about anyways to defend your favorite billion dollar business, you would see that the VGBC team consistently got in touch with Nintendo with both licensing the entire circuit as well as the single event. Nintendo was very supportive of the SWT even when it wasn’t licensed, so the VGBC guys can’t be blamed for thinking they had a good relationship.

@Deoxyr1bose

I can't defend Nintendo here because they need no defence. They have a legal right to take down any broadcast of their IP for any reason. You might not agree that they "should" exercise that legal right, and that's your personal right to think so. I don't think a stores in the west should call the cops on homeless people trying to keep warm. But they have the legal right to do so despite what I think. They are doing nothing wrong in exercising that legal right.

I brought up that SWT was in talks. But "in talks" isn't a signed contract, and if you invest money into a project that doesn't have approval based on someone's "word" or the way you perceive discussions are going, that is on you. You did the wrong thing. I'm sure if a TV station was "in talks" with FIFA to broadcast the world cup but had no contract or legal right to do so at this time, obviously FIFA would shut them down.

I wouldn't be defending FIFA, an organization I hate with a mind-numbing passion, in pointing out "yes, that's how it works". They can and should do that.

You should also note that they can still run the event. They just can't stream it and make money from ads. So Nintendo is a soulless corporation trying to protect their IP and SWT is a soulless corporation trying to profit from ad revenue (or they would have gone ahead with the event, or they could have offered PC all the profits if the gaol was really only to "help the community"). In fact if they actually thought that talks with Nintendo were going really well, they could run the event, record it, and broadcast the VODs (with ads) when they get approval. I don't see any white hats in the ring.

This seems like a shady area of legality.

@Poodlestargenerica

It's completely black and white. Nintendo not only can shut down any broadcast that isn't covered under fair use (if the country of origin even has something like that), but in the case of Smash they can be compelled to do so by Bandi Namco and likely any of the IP holders of any character in Smash.

Fair use is out the window as soon as you're getting paid. I mean, they can STILL RUN THIS EVENT. They just can't steam it. And given the reason they are running the event is to make money from ads on stream, not as some benevolent gift to the community, they are no longer going to run it.

My gosh, can Smash Bros not be a drama magnet for just one year? It's the most light hearted zany party fighting game ever made, and it is forever mired in a wide swath of varying unpleasantries.

@HeadPirate Oh ok, I figured they had told them they couldn't run the event at all. Which would be shady.

@Poodlestargenerica

Well think of it this way ... while they can't tell them to shut down the event, they COULD tell them they can't use any Nintendo IP in any marketing or promotion at all. So it's not even that "shady" to shut down events most of the time, given in this case calling it a "Super Smash Brothers" event or using the Smash logo, or even a screen shot are all violations of IP law. You can tell that SWT anticipated this, given all their promo stuff calls it a "smash" event and has no Nintendo IP on it. They video uses clips from events where the organizers have approved for re-broadcast and contains no original material that might violate IP. Which again shows you this wasn't out of the blue. They did everything they could to game the system, it just didn't end up being enough.

So I don't really take sides here (I was looking forward to watching the event), but if I was to label one "shady" it would be the guys trying to get around IP law or get out of having to pay a licensing fee to Panda Cup, not the ones exercising their legal rights.

@HeadPirate Yeah I meant generally legally shady to be clear, not just Nintendo.

@HeadPirate
But that isn't the point. The point is that the esports scene is a large part of the Smash community and regardless of legality or opinions, SWT is what helped made it popular (professional Smash). In most people's eyes, this will be seen as a negative thing and a form of gatekeeping (which isn't true or shouldn't be).

Everyone has to move to Panda's events if they want to partake in the esports scene now. I do not care about having to make this switch. If Panda's event is just as good if not better than SWT, then there isn't really much to lose in the long-run.

But SWT is still more firmly established than Panda's in all ways but being licensed. Nintendo should have hurried up with the licensing and SWT should have delayed the event. I feel like an "SWT x Panda Collab" would have made some clicks.

Maybe they'll have that license next time. A comeback story might make SWT more popular assuming they aren't overshadowed by Panda.

What a letdown they already want the current game to cease from the public

@MisterLizard

That’s a completely different discussion, but I’ll touch on it. You’re not allowed to broadcast “The Avengers” on Twitch. You can’t try and publish “The Hunger Games” as your own book. You can’t put someone’s art on a t-shirt and sell it. That’s THE LAW. Period. Marvel isn’t gatekeeping by taking down that broadcast, they are stopping someone from breaking the law. A good thing. Letting people break the law when they feel it’s justified or when they don’t agree with the law in question is generally bad. You can’t Stream Nintendo IP for money without their permission. I have no sympathy for people who blatantly disregard IP law. This isn’t because Nintendo, it’s because I’m a content creator. I live off residuals from my work, which includes some content in video games. I really like that people are not allowed to steal my creations and destroy my livelihood, or misrepresent my content in a way I might not approve, or use my content to make money for an organization I might not agree with.

Two other considerations:

This might not have anything to do with Nintendo. Maybe Nintendo WAS talking to WST and things were looking great, Nintendo was 100% for it and wanted it to go forward … then Hideo Kojima called them up, and because Panda has some deal with Kojima Productions we don’t’ know about, he told Nintendo to shut down WST … a thing he almost certainly is allowed to do as part of the licence deal to use Snake. What should Nintendo do? Face billions in liability and give up the publishing rights for Smash by breaking their contract?

There are 17 rights holders for Smash, and any one of them can likely demand a take down. Nintendo isn’t even the primary rights holder for ultimate, that’s BANDAI NAMCO, then Hal Laboratory, then Nintendo. But as publisher, enforcement is always their sole responsibility, regardless of who wants it taken down.

Not to call you out, but the idea that everyone had to go to Panda is just wrong. Obviously, WST COULD have found a way to make this event happen if they really were willing to play ball, as evident by the fact that BTS Smash Summit 14 is still happening in Dec. With all respect to WST's amazing accomplishments in international Smash, note the 14 at the end of Smash Summit vs. WST’s two events. I have a hard time putting the fault on Nintendo when another organization was able to get everything they needed to continue under the deal with Panda on time.

And like I said, the event can still happen. SWT actually went out of their way to ensure no marketing or promotion uses Nintendo IP (the video uses clips that other organizers have made available), which makes the story that they thought this was all completely above-board until the last minute a bit fishy, but it means Nintendo have no way to stop the event. They can only prevent them from streaming it or making money off it.

But SWT, like any other tournament, exists to make money for the people who own it first, and for the community a very, very, extremely, almost non-existent second. So it’s not going to go forward now that it won’t be profitable.

@JayronAuron My sincere thanks for clearing that up

@Vil Sorry but you called me as a nintendo fan a Joke so you just made me have to reply.
You seem to feel like ownership of something doesn't allow you control. So if someone pops round your house and picks up something you own and then starts doing whatever they like to it, are you fine with that? Will you not try and assert your rules of what can and can't happen here because most people would.
If you are someone that wants to use this thing that someone else owns, then you must accept the rules set by the owner.
Just because this is a massive corporation it's makes no difference and Nintendo can choose to do what they like because they own it. It's up to you if you do or don't like their actions, but as you are on a nintendo fan site then I guess you must be fine about it.

@Freddyfred it sold 28 million copies, doubt it

Pretty funny ngl

Ah competitive Smash the small minority of Samsh players who insist they are responsible for the series success, are riddled with scandals some of which are very serious and who hate everything for not being melee. Cant imagine why control freak Nintendo wouldn't want them representing and assiciatted with their game which the creator never wanted to be a competitive one but a fun party game.

Follow the money. SWT is huge. But Nintendo refused to license them. Then blatantly lied to SWT once it had official licensing with Panda. It's all about protecting the brand and exclusivity control. Kinda sad that Nintendo has become so predictable. I'm not into Esports, but so very many young people are. Total shame.

@dew12333 ...What?

I'm not calling Nintendo fans a joke, I made a joke of what responses to these articles can be from a very small but very vocal minority of extreme fans.

I'm an author myself and would never allow people to freely use my work as you mention, but this isn't one person's work, is it? To compare a massive corporation to a normal person is absurd, and when did I ever imply 'doing whatever they want with it'? This is free marketing in its purest form, and Nintendo seems to do everything they can, all the time, to stop their fans from actually enjoying and sharing their creations. That is not stealing, that is the very thing that keeps the art alive. I don't want people 'stealing' my work and 'using it however they want', but I know it's not a black and white world, it has infinite shades, especially when it comes to corporations.

You need to calm down, my friend. I didn't say anything that should offend you personally. It might have offended Nintendo, though, so I'll apologize for that.

I still respect your opinion if you disagree, though. I'm not here to attack people, just share some opinions and give different perspectives.

And a lot of children were protected by this decision.

Legal eagles on here make me smile. Big long posts about how “they understand the law” and they will explain it all to us and then post complete boot licking twaddle.

Nintendo can shut this down. It’s clear coz they have. This does not mean it’s right. Plenty of “laws” or “threats using the law” are in grey areas and the smaller party won’t be able to fight it. Often large companies know they might actually not legally win these cases but they know they can throw money at it to make it go away. Nintendo rarely care about if legally they can win. Just can they win.

@HeadPirate Totally agree with you. Smash has turned into an absolute licensing and IP nightmare monster from the depths of hell, so it is probably not Nintendo's fault in this case. No need for people to drop the nukes on them in this article, at least.

@Stocksy Exactly what I've been saying. It's not all black and white, the real world has infinite shades.

Nintendo love being absolute garbage where there is zero need or reason to be. It's like they need to take a s*** on their fanbase at least twice a year or they'll go bankrupt.

@Vil I am perfectly calm and certainly could see you didn't mean the 'joke' comment in that way. And I am sorry if I came across attacking that is not my intention, I too respect a difference of opinion.

But no I do not agree with you, you cannot belittle ownership on the basis of what or who the owner is. And you seem to miss a major point in question, these people who you are referring to are doing this to make money or notoriety, it's not like children tracing a drawing for the front a school book. Maybe when you write that masterpiece one day you will see this from a standpoint and possibly feel differently then.

@dew12333 Fair enough. I believe it depends, though, but we can definitely agree to disagree.

Still, thank you for being reasonable in your argument.

Well this really sucks.

@Dr_Corndog oh no, twitter is not a toxic echo chamber anymore, how awful

Even the Nickelodeon All-Star game gave more respect to the community than this franchise.

Sakurai seems like a guy that really loves his community despite so many ungrateful jerks, but he has to do what Nintendo tells him to do.

Also, can a lawyer in the house answer about the legality of you can't make a videogame tournament without the copyright holder of the game allowing it? If a lawsuit happens and they lose, a terrible precedent is established.

And what if it's one of those games that the developer is dead for decades and we can't find the copyright holder?

@Coalescence As long as there are people wanting a character, but going too far into their love for the character, to the point of harassing Sakurai, and people fighting against this, or just wanting to ruin everyone's fun, trying to prove by any way necessary that the character will never ever join Smash as playable, Smash will always have drama.

After people saying that characters like Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Hero, Banjo, Terry, Steve, Sora and many others were never going to join Smash as playable, and they joined anyway, maybe the community should learn to stop saying characters like Waluigi, Geno, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Ashley, Reium and Shantae will never be in Smash, but of course, Now It's Different®.

I'm still following this story, but from what I understood, the point stands.

The creator of this tournament could be even a genocide financier and using the money from the tournament to fund one, it's the police that should stop him, not Nintendo by using their copyright/trademark powers, if you want to make a videogame tournament, you should not need a permit from the developer/publisher who holds the copyright to the game.

This comment section quite frankly has a lot of people who are either out of the loop or so ignorant that they need to stay out. The Smash World tour has been going on all year as a circuit of events, with this being the championship for the final. The cancellation of this event doesn't just mean the end of it, but most likely the end of the Smash events as we know it. For the longest time, Nintendo was willing to keep out of grassroots events (with the exception of modded or "unofficial digital" copies being used) and while the organizers have never had licenses, they never got support but could do things on their own. With this decision, every single event not licensed could get shut down. And if the license takes 7 MONTHS to get confirmation, that's incredibly unreasonable. It's not about feeling like Nintendo owes the Smash community for advertising the game, its literally just them staying out so that we can enjoy competing and the competition. ON TOP OF THAT, the accusations from multiple sources about the CEO of Panda most likely being the person who had this happen to take out a competing circuit, this story is a huge dagger to the Smash community.

Never would Capcom do this to Street Fighter.

Considering that all I ever hear about the competitive Smash scene is negative; poor hygiene, bad sportsmanship, grooming, gatekeeping, snobbery, bullying, death threats, tantrums, ungratefulness, and cheating I don't blame Nintendo in the least.

@Vil This is legitimately the funniest comment in this thread. XD

@victordamazio If the organizers were criminals in the way you described or anyway that would be a separate matter for the police or whichever authorities because it be a criminal matter. This hasn't nothing to do with any other behavior they are engaging in. Nintendo does not have the right to shut the tournament down, only keep SWT from using or monetizing their IP. SWT shut it because of their profit motivation, let's not act like they are some noble actor in this drama.

@Itakiteacher Making a videogame tournament without permission from the company that owns the copyright of the game should be legal even if the tournament is profiting from it, using the copyrights/trademarks of the company like a big poster with the characters and logos from the game should fall under fair use.

And maybe it is legal, but the legal system works in a way where it's not worth it trying to win a lawsuit against someone bigger than you even if you are going to win.

@victordamazio Without getting into a discussion about legal morality, let say this; there are laws they you and I fine perfectly acceptable, however there is always someone will object because they want to do something that society has agreed is wrong. Society has deemed that other people should not profit from the work of others. There are multiple companies with Ips in that game with interests, which was point out by other comments, so not just Nintendo. Fair use is established law that has been around since 1976. If you think other people should be ability to make off copyright works, that's fine, however society doesn't. There was a case recently on YouTube where two YouTubers use a copyrighted photo and when the photographer tried to get them to pay a licensing fee and they proceeded to lie and say he was harassing them and other things that were untrue. They claimed fair use but, again it wasn't because it's wasn't transformative like a review or essay. The point people don't understand fair use and continue to try use it as a defense when it's not.

Sucks for everyone involved getting the shaft, but if that kind of money was on the line for, say, a battle of the bands competition, we would have more kids putting hours into learning an instrument and the world would be a better place.

@Itakiteacher I get your point, I am not against copyright and trademark laws, copyright is important to make sure if you work on something new, other people won't copy your work to make sure you can get your money, but one thing is preventing people from selling unlicensed copies of a game, another thing is an unlicensed tournament of a game, as long as everyone paid for legit copies of the game, it's fine, advertisment and decoration for the tournament will require a few copyright and trademark violations, but they should count as fair use.

Imagine if someone decides they own football, basketball, hockey, baseball, so you can't make a tournament without a permit from the people or groups that own them, you can't own these sports, handegg games are being controlled by EA for years since NFL gave them an exclusivity, but you can make your own handegg games, just without the teams, players and brands related to the association, while Nintendo deserves rights over the Super Smash Bros. franchise, alongside the partners that own much of the source material, no one should need a permit from Nintendo to make a Smash Bros. tournament, and the current law likely allows an unlicensed tournament but Nintendo doesn't care since the real punishment is the process and not the veredict.

@CammyUnofficial The game is their’s, which they released to the wild. As an owner of the product, I should be able to use it as I want so long as I’m not breaking the law. Imagine the outrage if FIFA found a way to ban all non-FIFA soccer leagues all together… though PGA is pretty well on track to do just that for golf.

An interesting read on the subject may be found called “Pausing the Game” - its an academic journal entry that elaborates on the issues with various legal claims against organizers that should not apply while at the same time proposing the legalization of esports licensing, similar to how music licensing is standardized.

@retroman64 I think you may be confused on more than just one point.

This could be the beginning of the end, but that's unlikely

As someone who is a die-hard Smash Bros fan who does play competitively, though not in tournaments, it always makes me sigh when there are articles like this. I can see a little bit of everybody's perspective and I also think that everyone involved is mischaracterizing the situation, and that isn't even taking into account how reporting on a topic will inevitably leave out certain details and create a "biased" report in one way or another.

It seems pretty clear that the CEO of PandaGlobal has been guilty of shady activity, though Nintendo continues to be perpetually Nintendo, so there's blame on both sides up top. On the bottom, the people talking about it are both likely to be wrong as well.

On one side, you have the hardcore competitive r/smashbros people who insist they are the "true" fans while only playing one mode and like 5 stages, often caring more about the people who play the game rather than the game itself. They will inevitably take this story to further their own narrative of "big, evil Nintendo hating the fans".

On the other side, you have a lot of people, a lot of them on this website, who view players who genuinely enjoy the game competitively as a rogue agent somehow "ruining" was what was "originally just a fun party game" (which I will stand firm in saying has always been a misunderstanding of the series).

Interesting fact. The amount of drama surrounding this is inversely proportional to the amount you read about it, multiplyed by X (where X equals the amount of Sony, Microsoft bias.)

@Wolfgabe "And of course this article completely ignores how apparently the CEO of Panda Global was essentially operating an extortion racket where he basically told TOs they would be shut down if not officially licensed in order to scare them into signing onto the cups"

Isn't that exactly what ended up happening?

@Ralizah I'm wondering if Nintendo had an exclusive contract with Panda.

"I don't want to see the game I love hidden from the world" if you know you know

This totally sucks thats gotta to be one of stupidest decisions they done.

As usual, multiple layers of drama. I look forward to fifty YouTube deep dives on this.

Lots of comments know look and read like angry toddlers'.

Remember that original Switch promo with the arena play? Yeah, that's aged well, hasn't it...

Seeing this update, I'm not too sure what to make of it.

So basically, yet another "Bayonettagate" where the outside public including us fans is left between two clashing accounts and will most undoubtedly abstain from making uninformed conclusions rather than pick sides out of pure bias.

Why does nintendo hate their fans so much?

@IronMan30 “Nintendo is always the bad guy. Always.”

Wow that comment seems very prejudiced

Yeah it’s their choice to shut it down but if they choose not to then they’re getting hit with a cease and desist. I hate that not only did they shut it down but they’re blatantly lying about it. To all the people saying that people jumped to conclusions, I don’t see why SWT would shut down their own tournament on purpose. The only thing I can see that might of happened is some serious communication error between the decision maker at Nintendo and the people communicating that to SWT, because what they said to SWT very heavily implies they could not run it.

@nhSnork The difference here is that my point stands, if you want to make a videogame tournament, a license from the company that owns the copyright of the game should not be necessary, even if you are profiting a lot of money from that tournament.

And there are probably no laws that will support Nintendo's case, but who cares, the punishment is the process, not the veredict, if Nintendo decided to sue everyone that made a tournament of their games without a license, they would probably lose all of the lawsuits, but most people wouldn't even try and would just give up.

@victordamazio Nintendo can pay for good enough lawyers that I feel like they could find a loophole. I hate that this is the way it is though.

Nintendo: Sure! It's your choice whether or not to carry on with the tournament. But you know what happens if you do proceed!

@BabyYoda71 If I were serious, it still wouldn't be because it's about a company and not an individual, but I'm not. In any case, very rarely is anyone "always" the bad guy.

@BabyYoda71 Take a look at the comment they were responding to, the context makes their joke more obvious imo

I haven't commented for a while, but I wanted to say that if you don't follow the guidelines to host any tournament like Smash Bros., then this will bound to happen.

@Korgon can you blame them after July 2020?

@retroman64
Well yes. Not everyone that is involved in the community is a bad person.

Well this all aged badly lol. Bayonetta VA 2.0 fiasco

Based on this statement I can tell you exactly what happened with a high degree of certainty. Obviously, I can’t know for sure, but it seems cut and dry based on the statement from both parties involved.

It all comes down to “translating” this statement from corporate BS into English:

“Any partner that we grant a license to has to meet the high standards we require when it comes to the health and safety of our fans”

What that means is “We insist that they fly in an inspector, almost certainly from Japan, and have them complete a full assessment of operations at WST’s expense." They would stay on site as an observer for the duration of the event. The total cost here is likely in the $15,000-$30,000 range.

This is … pretty standard. Unless you are using a 3rd party professional organisation that you both agreed on, the rights holder needs to be sure that things are being run “to code” and that the brand is not being exposed to negative liability. Next, this statement:

“We let them know verbally that we were not requiring they cancel the 2022 finals event … the decision to cancel the SWT 2022 was, and still is, their own choice”

This means “We were going to fine the hell out of them if they refused. If they run the event without our permission, they are violating IP law. We were clear that if they did so we would levy a fine. We didn’t say DON’T run it, we said “If you run it we’ll sue you unless you pay us”. See? Totally different!”

(The other option here is that Nintendo wanted 100% of the revenue and prize pool in escrow until they could confirm no obvious liability. If anything went wrong ... like ANYTHING, a health code violation, a political statement by a player, heck one of the officials getting a speeding ticket, all of it would be forfeited to Nintendo to pay their legal fees, any settlement, then the players ... in that order.)

And that’s that. I mean this was always going to be “Nintendo wanted money, WST didn’t want to give Nintendo money”, but with this statement we get some idea of what the details were.

Who's "right" and who's "wrong"? Well, Nintendo can't let big ticket events run blindly. Look at the forums on this site: a developer with no relationship to Nintendo and a publisher Nintendo has no connection to release a buggy game and everyone cries bloody murder that NINTENDO should be giving out refunds. Nintendo (rightly) knows that if anything goes wrong, if there is a accident, if a player from the Baltics has a "Z" arm band ... ANYTHING, they are going to be the ones held accountable. Having an observer or agreed on 3rd party is non-negotiable.

With the summit 14 happening this weekend, it obvious that Nintendo was willing to let an event happen if the organizers were willing to be professional, so we can only assume WST wasn't.

@TheCrabMan A real sport like running after a ball is much more real. That's a real goal that is much more valid than an e-sport. Whatever you think is has value or not, keep to yourself and don't impose it on others. Different people have different interpretations of what's valid or not.

I was pointing out the flaw in your logic by showing that anything can be pointless if you don't care about. Sorry if it wasn't obvious for you. I'll make it easier so even you can follow.
Any type of sport is pointless if you analyse it, because they are made of artificial rules that are created by humans. Yet we can give meaning to them since they can be a show of skill and intellect.

Also on topic replying to you, these are people that are passionate about a game and just want the right to make the most out of it. Very bold of you to take the side of the huge multibillionaire corporation that is not affected by it in the least. Whereas thousand of players and spectators lose the right to enjoy something.
Empathy goes a long way for understanding people's reasoning, you should try having a little bit of it from time to time.

@TheCrabMan "eSports are detrimental to both" can you back that claim with scientific proof? Because there is a good amount of research shows that it helps with mental acuity, though it can be physically damaging, just like sports which always damage the person's body due to requiring extreme performance at the top level.

"People leeching" of your game, are the fans who build something from it. Artists build their work and other people improve on it or change to function as something, it's the nature of art. But on that point I know for sure we won't agree.

@TheCrabMan They are rules created by humans aren't they? You don't find football pitches in nature waiting to be played by people.
Sports being games created by people as a way to exercise and compete is a known and irrefutable fact.

Also you deflected my question about your affirmation that e-sports are detrimental both physically and mentally because you know there's no concrete evidence of that. Pretty pathetic.
There's this article as just one example that both can be pretty demanding on a similar level:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/esport-athletes-face-same-level-of-mental-stress-as-athletes-in-other-sports-study-finds-12578192

You don't know what you're talking about.

Go back to the sea where you belong, "Crabman".

@ModdedInkling Ah yes kit and krysta. I miss the old days

@HeadPirate So basically, Nintendo forced SWT to shut down because Nintendo wasn't certain that they could escape legal liability if anything went wrong? Considering the messy legal landscape of the Professional Smash community, I can't really blame them too much for being too careful.

@jaybird0922
Now that they have their own YouTube channel and podcast, it's nice to finally see their true opinions about Nintendo and the gaming industry as a whole. I've been actively listening in to The Kit & Krysta Podcast this past month and have almost completely caught up.

Nintendo wants everything bleached nice and clean. If it's not Disney levels of family friendly they will never consent to a partnership. A shame for the community that has such great passion for their games.

@Dr_Corndog if Nintendo was doing the “Elon Musk” to competitive smash, that would mean they’re making it much better and safer.

@NatiaAdamo

In a nutshell. It's more accurate to say Nintendo forced them to pay for oversight and WST refused to pay, instead choosing to shut down, but you got the basics of it.

I would think this whole saga, including the partnership with Panda, is a direct result of policy changes after the sexual harassment scandal(s). Like the old saying goes "expose my IP to a sex scandal once, shame on you. Expose my IP to a sex scandal twice, shame on me".

@Pat_trick C’mon Pat let’s not pretend serious gamers aren’t complete wieners. The crab guy is correct when he says sports are mostly good for you, whereas even gamers will give you a hazy response regarding esports.

@Ryan_Again True on the "safer" part. You can't be harmed by something that no longer exists.

Would this be what Sakurai wanted? For Nintendo to basically tell people to stop enjoying his masterpiece?

@ATaco That’s why I love Nintendo.

@dcon11 You think people can only enjoy it at these tournaments? There are 30 million people who bought this game and only a tiny minority of them takes part in the competetive scene. Sakurai always wanted Smash to be a fun party game, not a competetive fighter.

It's a good thing that Alan is gone. From what I understood, he caused a lot of unnecessary drama. Hopefully this means that Panda will work towards getting SWT up and running again.

This has been an absolute roller coaster. It's terrible to say this but I love it for the drama. I'm very confused about what is going on as well. Can't wait for the next update on this lmao

@StarPoint It's hard to say what will happen next, as there are reports that 80% of Panda's sponsored players and employees have left the organization after Panda's first message came across as generally tone deaf. Alan being removed as CEO but is still the owner of the company was the second message.

Edit: The CEO has stated in their personal statement that he is trying to sell his shares in the company as owner, so that's a good sign at least.

As much as anyone hates to admit it Nintendo are well within their right to protect their licences.
At the end of the day its someone else using Nintendo's IP to profit.

Alan made a massive miscalculation by sucking up to Nintendo. I can’t believe he thought he wouldn’t lose all his talent by doing this. What incompetence lol. Having him step down is good, but the damage is done. Panda is effectively dead, and you know who's not gonna save them? Nintendo.

@HeadPirate I would argue that Nintendo was already highly uncomfortable with there being this big of an esports community for smash. The abuse scandals is just easy ammo for them

@HeadPirate Just wondering if there was any reason you are using WST and SWT interchangeably, unless I'm missing something.

While it seems like Panda Global was a mess, and Nintendo had a reason to not be affiliated with them, my point stands, if you want to make a videogame tournament, you should not need permission from the company that made/sells that game, even if you are making money from the tournament, even if the organizers are corrupt and may be tarnishing your brand.

And there are probably no laws stating that you need permission.

Also, a bunch of statements saying "Super Smash Bros. is a trademark of Nintendo, it's characters and elements are copyrighted and trademarked by Nintendo and other companies like Konami, Sega and Capcom, this tournament is an independent event and it's not in any way affiliated or endorsed by Nintendo and it's partners" and they should get away with it.

@victordamazio from the bowels of the internet (stumbling through google). Its like showing professional sports/movie in venue. Seems a grey area since theres no declaration:

Video games are treated differently, though, primarily because they exist on a screen rather than a board. "A video game under copyright law is an audiovisual work, which gives a public performance right to the copyright holder," Dallas attorney and Law of the Game blog author Mark Methenitis explained in an interview with Ars. "Under the public performance right, the copyright holder is allowed to say when, where, or whether something is publicly performed, meaning displayed in front of a group of people larger than, say, at your house."

Man, I just can't see why Nintendo is so apprehensive about embracing the competitive Smash community.

But at least we'll always have that clip of Reggie smacking down Hungrybox.

man, imagine if FIFA tried to shut down all soccer matches that were not officially licensed by them

@Crockin

I'm not sure I agree. I'm a huge DOTA fan, been to 2 TIs, and I was at finials weekend of LOL Words for work, and despite that I have never seen a company more directly involved in creating an over-the-top E-sport experience as ... basically any Splatoon event in SEA. Nintendo's commitment is second to none; not only are matches broadcast on TV, but you can buy "programs" that follow the players and have ways for you to track upcoming matches, just like you could buy at a North American hand-egg game. They train broadcasters in 8 languages so that everyone uses the same terms (you can't say "killed", you have to say "Splated"). And let's no overlook a decade+ of running the high exposure Pokémon worlds where they had to balance an age gap where some players were 8 and others were 40, without issue.

They have no problem being big E-sports, it's just ... well there is no easy way to say this, they think the West is a lawless wasteland full of savages. It was only 10 years ago Nintendo was still refuses to port some games to the West saying "Westerners are TOO STUPID to understand this game", a policy that has been in place since the days of the NES and something they thought it was perfectly OK to say out load. So they want control and oversite of all Western events. Look at the NA worlds for Splatoon, it's not like they have any problme with them being a thing and they are agressively pushing for more events in NA ... but they have insane control over the events.

Production houses like BTS will echo this; if you want to run a Nintendo event in the West, expect Nintendo to want to either run it directly or disavow it completely. Yet they manage to play ball.

@HeadPirate o Nintendo will do esports if it's controlled by Nintendo. Thats a totally different story though.

I don't understand how this even works.
When i am buying a couple of Cars, i can start a Tournament with them.

@BTB20 right. The competitive scene is small compared to the fan base. That doesn’t mean we should take the former away though