HAL Laboratory general director Shinya Kumazaki revealed in a recent interview with The Washington Post that the Kirby series has "no clear timeline" when it comes to the stories in each game. Yes, that's right - despite all the theories, there's apparently no particular order.
The main reason behind this according to Kumazaki is to "avoid being constrained" by past settings, and it also allows the team to prioritise the "optimal gameplay experience" for each entry. Here's the full exchange:
Q: Would you say there is a narrative thread that ties all the Kirby games together, similar in the way the “Zelda timeline” has become a concept over the years at Nintendo?
Kumazaki: There is no clear timeline for the game stories. This is to avoid being constrained by past settings, and so that we can easily take on new challenges and prioritize the optimal gameplay experience for each installment — even in a series with a long history.
However, we can't progress the story much if we have Kirby meet King Dedede for the first time in the opening of each game, so new installments inherit story elements that can be naturally accepted and easily understood by the players. For example, we use story elements that are effective at making each new game better, such as when the character Magolor repented his past actions and moved to Dream Land, or when Meta Knight got his revenge on Kirby.
I also pay attention to the details when writing the text for the story. This is because, if future installments are going to inherit these story elements, we need to first prepare detailed settings for each installment. However, the main focus of the Kirby series is action and gameplay, so we prepare the settings required to make these elements more appealing in each game.
So, there you have it - there's supposedly no complex timeline similar to The Legend of Zelda series. What are your own thoughts about this? How would you order the Kirby games? By release, or some other way? Tell us below.
[source washingtonpost.com, via nintendoeverything.com]
Comments 68
That's good man
Even when he says there is no strict canon, I don't fully trust him.
DeDeDe Tour, Meta Knightmare, True Arenas, they're all canon, somehow.
Yes, even Marx helping in Star Allies.
Kirby is like Dr Who, he is spread across all of time and space.
@westman98 When I look at that I'm reminded of the Plot in the Kingdom Hearts games.
Wile there might not be a timeline, theres is indeed a hefty amount of lore to go through, and if you got the time, i'd suggest it worth giving a little look at least.
Video games needn't have timelines. Some clearly do, and it works. But though Zelda is and always will be my favorite gaming franchise by a country mile, I have never understood the desire to try and retroactively construct a timeline into which all the games are (often awkwardly) forced to fit. "Legend" is in the name, for Pete's sake. Embrace the word and treat the franchise as variations on a shared mythos that share elements with one another, but are not necessarily connected in any coherent or direct way. Not that you can't have stretches of more sequential narratives within the franchise, but not every title needs to be tied to one another like it's the MCU.
So, to return to Kirby from my old-man-yells-at-cloud rant, good for Kumazaki.
To be fair this is also the case with Zelda, even if there's some "official timeline" on a website, it doesn't really make a lot of sense and has tons of internal conflicts if you actually try to fit them all together.
@DanElectrode I think the young link timeline is the best written, at least its easy to fit those since they had two games, and mention him later on.
As for the rest, I agree with you.
I actually wished they never released a timeline for Zelda. Speculation and each game being its own thing was part of the fun. Its all legends anyhow. A little continuity here and there is okay, but Nintendo games don’t need to be like Marvel comics. To me Kirby is just a fun and cute game. I never asked myself as a kid where Dreamland 1& 2, and Adventure all tied into one another. They were just games, and I loved them anyway.
I'm using that image with all the cute Kirbys as my Mobile wallpaper now.
There’s really no point in trying to have some sort of timeline for a game like Kirby or even Zelda, in my opinion. It just limits what they can do in future games if they’re always trying to piece things together between games.
Good they don’t know need pull out a half assed one out of their butt and sell it to their fanbase like with what happened in Zelda lol
I reached an area of Forgotten Land that got me thinking, so I wrote down some lore from earlier games, connections that have been hinted at in the past, and elements of this game's world that seem like they could fit in with the bigger picture. I swear, reading the lore and flavour text is like half the fun of Kirby games!
Ive played most of the series and I still don’t know what the hell is going on or who the bad guys are, lol
The only timeline I really follow is Metroid's. Zelda's timeline feels like it was forced and comes across convoluted. I didn't even know a Kirby timeline was a subject being considered before now. I feel most Nintendo IPs don't need an overall timeline, but do enjoy seeing arcs such as the Fawful arc of the first three Mario & Luigi games.
I wonder what Sakurai would think...
I feel like I’m the only one who likes the Zelda timeline lol. It’s a bit crazy, but it’s unique and it makes pretty good sense when you look into it.
Wait, so there's a canon reason Magolor is a playable character in Star Allies? So that means neither he nor Marx were destroyed at the end of their respective games? Not sure if I like that.
Anyways, Forgotten Land is absolutely amazing. One of the best games Nintendo has ever made. I just beat it today. I refused to put it down even long enough to eat. I thought Star Allies was hot garbage and a waste of 60 bucks, so from now on, instead of being bitter about it I'm gonna pretend that was my Kickstarter donation I made for this masterpiece.
If ppl read the interview it’s clear that Shinya Kumazaki doesn’t stand by a certain timeline because he states that they rather not be constrained by previous entries. Especially when it comes to Kirby’s abilities.
You can just experience them in order of release and that’s fine and some things carry over and some things get ignored.
@westman98 I really don’t understand the bottom timeline lol at first I thought it was the timeline for Kirby games with no power but games like Air Ride and Dreamcourse have powers
Also this timeline is wild. There’d be another timeline branching off Kirby Super Star and leading to the smash brothers universe.
Also this might organize the games by types I guess but then there’s the whole mess of the Alt timelines or AU stories that happen in some of the sub games. Then the games also have a lot of cross dimensional happenings. It’s just too wild. I just go by the release date order. Just easier for me
Also what’s the point of having the ancients and dark matter timelines separate? To me they are in the same timeline, those games up top reference the games with Dark Matter later on bridging the games.
Not everything needs a timeline. I'd argue Zelda never needed one. As a pre-internet kid in the 90s, I recognized that the Zelda titles weren't all connected, that it was like a 'in every generation a Link, Zelda and Ganon will pop up to duke it out for the world' scenario
@sleepinglion saved me the time writing the same thing
@RubyCarbuncle yeah I’d ignore that mess and just go by release order.
Does anyone else see tiff and tuff in that wallpaper?
Actually Kirby games have a very simple timeline, all the games have been in sequential order based on release. Each mainline game references events that take place in past games, making it very easy to sequence what happens and it's surprising consistent. The only exception to the rule is that Super Star comes out after Crystal Shards. This is mainly because Meta Knight is absent during the Dark Matter Trilogy as he is off world building the Halberd
So Kirby will continue to confound historians...and biologists.
Kirby is no ordinary being. He doesn't consider time as linear or as A to B. He exists in different points in time.
better still, there’s no timeline for Kirby game stories
I've only played a couple Kirby games. But it's pretty much like Mario in that regard.
There isn't strict continuity, but the slate isn't wiped completely clean each game. Certain elements, events and character relationships are selectively retained between games.
But they avoid stuff which would restrict the games too much. e.g. In Mario Odyssey they don't have all of the Mushroom World Lands from SMB3, or the Beanbean Kingdom bordering the Mushroom Kingdom, there's no Mario Land, etc. to avoid a 12 story pileup of geography clashes.
There isn't any time line outside Metroid. "Maybe" donkey kong, Zelda got a book of a 'timeline' because that's what fans wanted. And Mario is perpetually 25 and he's 30+ years old now.
We don't need a time line. Just enjoy the game(s) when playing them.
Works for me — of all the series that I'm screaming out for their comprehensive lore and backstory, Kirby ranks pretty low down. Plus I don't really fancy wading through 30-something years of games (as fun as that might be) to fully appreciate the new one.
Zelda never needed a timeline to begin with.
@Abes3 And even the Metroid timeline is sketchy at best.
But you are forgetting the one actual Nintendo franchise with a working timeline: Pokémon.
Implying the Zelda timeline was "clear" to begin with ahahaha
@rdm22
i feel like even without a timeline kirbys games feel like they have the most interconnected background plot elements thanks to all the flavour text and references to one another which makes them a fun puzzle for the fans to connect.
@sanderev lol true. But it's licences by Nintendo, published by the Pokémon company, developed by gamefreak and creatures inc (which Nintendo had a share in)
So... . We'll let that one slide
Not having a singular canon makes it exactly like Zelda. That whole timeline thing they created was just to give the fans something to stop arguing about =P
@Not_Soos Marx and Magolor are definitely alive. Shinya Kumazaki said he escaped at the last moment. he returned to building amusement levels in the 20th anniversary game and Dedede Drum Dash. Marx survived in Star Allies but but hard to say why and how lol. It was never explained but tbh I love Marx so I’m okay with it. I really like the characters so I’m okay with these two. They are also just generally popular.
.
@moodycat came here to say this. With the exception of a few games that explicitly link (haha) to others (e.g. Majora's Mask following OoT, Skyward Sword being the "first" legend), it's generally felt to me that the games were conceptualised first and only retroactively placed into a shambles of a timeline.
Sure, there are references between games - but that's not quite the same as a thought-out continuity (and small references may contradict each other in this sense).
This interview was a good read, it's always cool to read how devs make their games.
Not every series needs a timeline
Sounds a bit like Mario. Not a strict timeline. But you just assume the events of one game just proceed after the events of another, with no real narrative connection other than the characters and their existing relationships. Maybe some references here and there. But no game and it's story is necessarily beholden to another
@P-Man Exactly. It isn’t necessary to enjoy the games, but it’s not harming anyone either; I don’t get why everyone is dissing on it. It’s got some fun elements, even if some are explained in games directly, like the hero’s shade in twilight princess being the spirit of Link from Ocarina of Time. A lot of people know that, but not everyone would have picked up on it, and the whole Hyrule Historia is filled with nice little connections and pieces of info that can teach the unknowing and connects the seemingly separate games. My personal favourite is showing the spawn and fate of Ganondorf across the different timelines, especially with aspects like him being the same person in Ocarina, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess. I never would have thought about that, but it was cool to see and think about.
Necessary? Of course not. But fun? Absolutely.
@Platinum-Bucket I totally agree.
Basically, as Kirby has progressed through the years, all of the enemies and frienemies have progressed too, nothing more or less. It works well, I think.
@Not_Soos after you beat magolor in rtdl it shows a cutscene of the crown body reverting to the original magolor and getting sucked back to Popstar with Kirby and his gang, and it’s implied that he also met Marx on his travels
Not sure Kirby ever really needed a timeline. It’s not like, say, Zelda, where the timeline was pretty clear for the first 17 years of the franchise before Wind Waker started branching things off. Or Metroid where things were very sequential to begin with.
Even the Mario series gave up on telling somewhat connected storylines after about 10 years- and Kirby is even less story-focused than Mario was back then.
I'm not particularly convinced that most Nintendo series have a timeline. It's always gameplay first and everything else is made afterwards.
And that includes the Zelda timeline. They definitely made that up years later
@Abes3
Actually Nintendo owns Pokemon in its entirety. They just contract Gamefreak for game development. Same thing with Kirby and HAL.
Thank god. Pandering to those clamoring for shared universes and timelines in any given instance is just unnecessary. Looking at you, Zelda.
@P-Man I really like the Zelda timeline, personally. Yes, it retcons a few things, but I think they came up with creative ways to connect all the games. The amount of negativity toward it here surprised me.
That being said, I think Kirby (and Mario) work just fine without a timeline.
Zelda has always had an explicit timeline, why does everyone seem to think it didn't?
The second game was literally called Zelda II and is explicitly set after the first one, and Alttp's promotional material advertised it as a prequel. OOT's plot is based on Alttp's prologue and was, again, promoted as such.
MM and WW are obvious sequels to OOT. Awakening and the oracle games were the only ones with no clear placement.
It was only when Twilight Princess came out that people started to question the timeline because it contradicted WW so much. But that really only lasted about 5 years before Hyrule Historia came out.
The truth is Zelda has had a pretty clear timeline for the majority of its 35 year history.
@Leuke I don’t know enough about Kirby to say whether it should or shouldn’t have a timeline, but I definitely don’t think Mario needs one.
Action....gameplay? I may need to play more kirby games because the last 20 years every time i tried to play one I got bored instantly because of the simplicity in gameplay, and moveset or lack in challenge....i grew up on kirby superstar and every game since has felt like a letdown in some way... Tried the new demo feels promising but also a yawn of a game of just going through the motions
@P-Man if mario got a timeline, we would question if he was a good enough hero when the timeline shows bowser stealing peach 40 times
Okay, so it's exactly like Zelda.
MatPat:
https://preview.redd.it/kljwg7hrhwj41.png?auto=webp&s=7134c35bd4b849b4d8a6e3bbcbb3dfe5559477ca
Will people stop trying to force a timeline on everything!
All timelines do are make fans confused. They then make up their own timelines and get mad when the official one isn’t what they wanted it to be. Just enjoy games stories for what they are and don’t try to make them up to be something much more grand then they actually are.
Alright, rant over.
There's no clear timeline for the Zelda games either, the Kirby people are just more honest about it.
It's incorrect to say that Nintendo just retroactively came up with a Zelda timeline at some recent time. I could list all the deliberate story connections between the games and remarks in interviews by Aonuma and Miyamoto but it would be boring. It's just a strange thing to argue given all the evidence to the contrary. Also, most Zelda fans don't "get mad" about lore, we just enjoy discussing it. It's part of the genius of the series that there's a coherent narrative throughout but enough left up to the imagination for fans to speculate on.
so it's possible that Triple Deluxe happened right after Kirby's Dreamland 2?
"This is because, if future installments are going to inherit these story elements, we need to first prepare detailed settings for each installment"
That's probably why all those different company's from "forgotten land" are mentioned by name, and what they did. Its as if they deliberately placed little hook-points for possible future Kirby plots.
@westman98
@Not_Soos Magalor Epilogue would like to say hello.
@ParadoxFawkes Kirby Super Star hard 🤣🤣🤣
Since when has a Kirby game (excluding the post game stuff) ever been hard?
@batmanbud2 Sir, you're replying to a comment from 2022 before that game even existed.
I know. I'm just saying Magalor Epilogue fixed the plothole.
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