Atelier Ryza Developer Clarifies Its Stance On Video Game Censorship

When I hear convenient dust clouds my brain jumps to fire emblem awakening and Tokyo mirage sessions. 😂😂😂

Over/under on the number of comments which show that people have no [redacted] clue what the difference between censorship and localization is: 89.5.

The idea that Sony is accurately representing "american culture" by censoring naked bottoms in Devil May Cry, is utterly deranged. They're doing nothing of the sort. Their HQ got relocated to California. They're representing puritanical wokeness culture, which only a tiny percentage of americans subscribe to.

@Dezzy I highly doubt you understand american culture judging from this post.

I blame the US and Japanese firms like Sony being oblivious that the west is more than the US. But mostly the US with their weird way of judging that is acceptable.

Suitable toys for 8yo: guns, games about mass murder (Call of Duty)
Weapons of mass destruction: unpasteurised milk, kinder eggs and nipples (I agree with the latter, just look at Helen of Troy, but it should only be censored for kids)

Is it ok not to care either way?

@LEGEND_MARIOID Yes

@Guest88

There is no such thing as "american culture" in this particular sense. America is the most multi-cultural country on earth. There are about a dozen different "cultures" in the country.
The idea that Sony is accurately reflecting that is complete nonsense. Of course they're not. They're not even trying to. They're reflecting the culture of upper-middle class california democrats, who have become extreme puritans in recent years.

The western market is full of outrageous hypocrisy. People here won't bat an eyelash to intense graphic violence, vile awful themes and "protagonists" and all kinds of abuse and vulgarity.

But God forbid there's so much as a nipple or a panty shot! CONTROVERSY!

@Dezzy so much stupidity in your comment. I am impressed

This has nothing to do with California or democrats. This has something to do with capitalism. If Sony think moderation will bring them more profitable then they are going to continue with it. If you think politics has something to do with it then it tell me more about you to be honest.

But again United kingdom is the country where people love outdated royals in kensington palace.

@Guest88

And yet Nevada has legalised prostitution. Which is more socially libertarian than most of Europe is. Hence my point about multiple cultures. The US was deliberately set up as a federation of 50 states for a reason, because getting wide scale consensus on anything in a country so big and diverse, would often be impossible.

The thing is, companies like Sony imposing censorship doesn't accurately reflect the culture here. The whole reason "get woke, go broke" is such a reliable thing and the reason it's such a guarantee that a company will lose money for doing so is specifically because there aren't enough people willing to pay full price for a partial product.

"Sony, in particular, often comes in for criticism for obscuring any cheekiness it doesn't want on PlayStation. Nintendo has been more lenient in many cases"

At what point did that switch? Wasn't Nintendo always the family-friendly prudes and Sony (and MS) more adult?

@Dezzy The fact that you think Sony is doing this because of wokeness for being in California is a interesting take. Sex/nudtity has always been a thing that gets censored in the US. It isn't some new thing or because of one region.

@Rhaoulos But Kinder Eggs were banned in the US, and are only back without toys inside.

@Arehexes

They've openly admitted that was the reason. They said it was in response to the #metoo movement (Harvey Weinstein obviously would've been a complete gentlemen had he not played Dead or Alive 2 on the PS2 back in the day!)
https://www.businessinsider.com/sony-metoo-censorship-playstation-games-2019-4

Just gonna put out there that sex-positive feminism is a thing. That most ‘woke’ people subscribe to. There’s nothing puritanical about it, if the nudity in question is representing underage girls or is done in a completely tacky way then of course it warrants criticism, if it’s just part of the story then fair enough.

@Dezzy So I guess Nintendo was on that hot metoo movement in the 90s when they censored snes games?

Also read your article and notice this quote

'The company is particularly concerned about being associated with Japanese titles that feature sexualized images of underage girls.'

Think there is more to this then saying it's only because of metoo.

@Yorumi I think the problem is also people wanting to point to a single target and say this is the problem. This crap has been going on long before social media was a thing. When people go 'it's twitter that's the problem' or 'it's this movement that's that problem' it removes any actual discussion to be had over censorship.

@Guest88 No, this is completely different and predates that by a lot. Western culture has glorified violence and made sexuality taboo for literally centuries now. It dates back to the hyper conservative Christians like the puritans who demand everyone live up to their "morality".

Then look at western, especially American media. Almost all American "heroes" get that status through violence. And the US is a nation built from violence. It glorifies and honors it everywhere.

I have no Idea what that game is at all or ever heard it..

@status-204 That's not quite true. They left Holland because the libertarian society was having an adverse effect on their christian puritan morals, and they feared the children were growing into licentiousness rather than holiness. This prompted a decision to charter course for the Americas. But history lesson's over.

It's good to see that Nintendo devs are remaining true to their work. The simple fact is, when you cater to a vocal woke minority (who do not represent the West by any conceivable stretch) instead of the mass of your target player base, you will undoubtedly suffer loss of sales. And here in the West outrage culture is never satisfied with what you "accomplish" for their sake. There is always more char to be had.

So I commend Mr. Hosoi for his fortitude and vision for free artistic expression. May it be met with increased success.

Dang this comment section got heated fast. And the inevitable name-calling hath begun.

Never been a fan of censorship. Didn't like it in the 90's, don't like it now. It's really that simple. Give games an appropriate rating and let people decide if they want to buy it.

@Heavyarms55

Guys head explodes, there is an effect that makes it looks like his brains "splatter" on the screen

-let it though

Guy rips off another guys arms then beats him to death with them

-let it though

In this game you play a flat out murder and you get points for killing people, extra points for woman and children

-let it though

You can kinda see this girls panties if you jump at JUST the right time and do a trick with the camera

-BAN IT! WHY WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!

@Dezzy Oh yes, it's the Democrats who are the bible-thumping dingbats.

It's not like Republicans have been hailing Trump as being "sent by God" to save America or -

ohwait

@Arehexes, I think it's important to note that while censorship of violence/nudity in games is something that's been prevalent in the US for decades, that doesn't mean that the same forces calling for it today are the same as the ones from yesterday.

Yes, the debate in the 90's was largely driven by conservative voices such as Jack Thompson (I believe I'm remembering right), but there currently aren't any notable conservative voices in American culture making this a priority (I'm not saying conservative prudes focused on gaming no longer exist, one just needs to take a quick peek over at Family Friendly Gaming to see that, but gaming companies largely don't give them the time of day anymore. Again, look back to my previous example, and they'll almost always start out any game review from a large company, whether it be Sony, Nintendo, or whomever, and complain that they're being unprofessional & discriminatory for not giving them review copies).

On the other hand, "sexualization" of women is very much something that the modern left has made an issue of, and is a side that's more likely to gain the attention of game developers & publishers in the west, simply because the views of the devs/pubs themselves more often than not closely align with that ideology out on the coast.

This shows what almost annoys me the most in all of this.
They think it is western culture that wants stuff removed,
when actually it is just a minority that wants this, therefore this isn't the "western culture" at all (whatever that is anyway, be it America or Europe, both have very diversive populations).

It is mostly just a group of people, mainly in the US, that are seen as the representants for all of our cultures including europe.
So the majority has to live with whatever the minority wants and that is just wrong.
Japanese developers need to realise this!
But these puritans scream so loudly everywhere, that I can understand why they don't notice everyone else.

Usually the edits are not that bad, but the fact that some people being outraged over nothing get their will over everyone else is just incredibly annoying and unfair.

@FNL Agree... it's funny how right wing people think game censorship is due to some kind of liberal wokeness when the rich tradition of censorship and destroying culture is almost always the preserve of the Christian, conservative right.

'Morality' of what is appropriate has often been the soapbox of the right, not left.

I do agree in some ways that calls for sensitivity or treatment of women / minorities in culture often leads to similar puritanical demands (no matter how well intentioned).

Short version - if Americans don't like panties in games it's not because of the 'wokes'

(See PMRC and record burning and the Satanic panic of Dungeons and Dragons for older examples)

Slightly off-topic, but this very site published an article about a year ago (where I'm sure things got pretty heated as well) about Galarian Corsola's Pokédex entry in Pokémon Shield which I think mentions "change in climate" contributing to its form, but neglected to make any mention of the original Japanese entry, which mentions environmental change (it wasn't any more specific). The entry stood out as an obvious deviation by the localisation team to sneak their politics in to the game as opposed to reflecting the intention of the creators. This obviously manifests itself in many other subtle ways across the franchise, but this was one of the more blatant examples ("This gym is full of strong trainers!" anyone?).

I find it particularly annoying that there is so much moral decay in our society and yet certain people take it upon themselves to characterise themselves as righteous and dictate what can and cannot be said and what sensitivities can and cannot be held. Localisation teams ought to be politically and ideologically impartial (and ideally comprised of non-gamers with a literary background, as some of the "gamer" types in the industry tend to fill games with modern slang/expressions that make games feel anachronistic). I'm not sure if much has changed in the dialogue in the Japanese versions of the Animal Crossing games over the years, but New Horizons has byfar the dullest dialogue in the series to date (and I can only speculate whether this was done to make the characters seem "nicer" and/or due to a less literary generational shift which may perhaps explain the lack of wit).

In respect to the Atelier games, upon the Australian Classification Board's introduction of the R18+ rating for games, they had tightened a lot of the rules at lower classification categories, so, a lot of games that would ordinarily have receive a lower classification would now receive an R18+ certificate (or even banned outright) purely due to "references to sexual violence" (even though such rules do not extend to film/cinema). The problem with this rule is that "sexual violence" is only vaguely defined, and anything even remotely non-consensual in nature, even if devoid of any sexual context, can be slapped with an R18+ rating. At least two Atelier games, upon reclassification after the R18+ rating had been introduced, jumped from a PG rating to an R18+ rating (with the minority of the Board even calling for the games to be BANNED according to their interpretation of the guidelines). For those overseas, this is the equivalent of a E10+ or 7+ rated being catapulted to AO or 18+, and this is without ANY change to the story whatsoever. It's ridiculous, obscene, and makes a mockery of the community standards that the Classification Board have been appointed to represent. How does something go from being a legally unrestricted and completely family friendly to an adults only affair in the space of a couple of years?

Perhaps in response to this, virtually all new Atelier games have since been rated PG in Australia, as the developers have probably since designed their games around ensuring more or less similar ratings internationally (and perhaps that too is a form of censorship).

@RR529 I'd agree with many of your observations, I like how you point out it's not one thing or another but I would add it's not 'the designers are influenced by the modern left' that is responsible for censorship more that executives have lines they won't cross.

The Christian conservative right has never been happy with anything that implies sexualisation, seeing as they see it as sinful and degenerate.

I suspect much of those who see things from a feminist point of view would say it's not sexualisation that is the problem more the treatment of it and female figures in culture (so sex is fine, but female characters need to be defined by their sexual perspective rather than the male gaze of horny boys).

In the corporate world these forces come together to be reluctant bed fellows (actually they are in different beds!).

Also there will always be a market for adult or sexual or even offensive games but a developer always wants the widest audience and to avoid scandal, and also wants to reach a wide audience (games are not for teenage boys anymore)

@Silly_G you can't have 'politically and ideological impartiality' it simply doesn't exist. Everyone is a product of their environment and brings their own standards and cultural bias to the table

What is considered dominant culture changes over time and what is acceptable is fluid.

For example 'bad' language is more prevalent in media aimed at teens now than in the past whereas smoking, alcohol and drug use is far more frowned upon.

Censorship in ANY format when it comes to games is just outright stupid.

The sooner Japanese developers realise there’s more than just America to appeal towards when it comes to western fans, the better.

@Kirgo This SO SO much.

The people who want content censored have ZERO intent of actually experiencing it. It doesn't help when almost all the games media this side of the world are games activists who loathe anyone who thinks differently or wants to play something they don't approve of. See DoA series as a case in point. Will never be given a fair shot.

I cannot understand anyone who thinks censorship in any form.

@FantasiaWHT it changed when Sony hired a American as its company president by the name of Jim Ryan and the moment they left their native country to set up their headquarters in North America. Now Sony is behaving as if it is an American company like Microsoft or Atari while Nintendo will be left as the one and only primary Japanese influence company in the industry making consoles.

What really kills me about the broader topic is its pretty easy to fix while making most people happy. Equalize the sexualization between male and female characters and give people non-sexualized alternatives for the characters. The biggest problem is overcoming the patriarchal and homophobic belief that men shouldn't be sexualized in media and if they are it shouldn't be equal to the sexualization of women.

@Dezzy they ain't representing nada they're doing the bare minimum to maximize their profits. Game developers have been doing for this for years obviously had no noticeable negative impact or has had a positive impact.

@RR529 these companies want more money though and there's a lot of room for improvement with girls and women. They can't be oblivious that things like The Hallmark Channel which for a lack of a better way to put it produce media through a lens of the female gaze are quite profitable.

@Sun-Wu_Goku I don’t have to explain this to a guy from UK.

@Sun-Wu_Goku

https://level.medium.com/white-conservatives-invented-cancel-culture-da69c0beaf3

https://theoutline.com/post/6140/a-brief-history-of-batshit-conservative-protests?zd=1&zi=bl742xcq

> when's the last time the Christian Right got anything banned?

Maybe not the Christian Right, but the Right in general is constantly protesting and trying to cancel things.

Starbucks, Disney, Star Wars, the NFL, Amazon, Nordstroms, Goodyear Tires, Target, NIKE, Netflix, Budweiser, Oreos, the list goes on and on.

https://www.businessinsider.com/conservatives-boycott-brands-keurig-nfl-starbucks-2017-11#starbucks-3

https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-the-things-you-can-no-longer-buy-if-youre-a-true-maga-trump-fan

The Right has historically been the worst offenders when it comes to cancel culture and boycotts. It expands beyond boycotts against products to boycotts against actual social and civil movements.

But ok, Hannity tells you the left is crazy so keep going on that narrative.

@BarryandWill : I said that localisation teams ought to be politically and ideologically impartial in how they carry out their work. That is not to suggest that the original work is (or should be) free of political or ideological bias, but that the intentions of the original author(s) should be preserved as opposed to localisation teams perverting/censoring somebody else's work to further their own political/ideological cause(s). Many vocations do require people to act impartially (such as in healthcare/law), and I am very well aware that, unfortunately, this may not occur in practice, particularly if there are little to no consequences for those who deviate from their duty, hence why I said it "ought" to be the case, because it is a growing issue in the industry.

And in respect to what you have said about acceptability changing over time, I am not of the view that what is socially acceptable suddenly invalidates the moral reprehensibility of certain actions. For example, profanity isn't any less vulgar because it has become more socially acceptable in recent decades. I'll confess that I am no angel in that respect, and that's something I try to work on, but I won't try to justify it either. Perceptions of morality can of course vary wildly from person to person, but I think the general view held, particularly in a multicultural society, is that so long as another's actions do not impact them, then they shall be left be.

the twitter and tumblr SJW feminazi cult is responsible for video games marketing the idea pretty female characters is a bad thing that must be covered or erased and replaced. a perfect example is mortal kombat 11 or the last of us 2

@Sun-Wu_Goku 'your woke crowd' lol....

You show a stunning lack of knowledge about the history of culture getting censored, erased and banned and by whom and why.

Cancel culture isn't a 'new' invention by woke millenials. It's funny that you refer to my thinking as outdated when it's clear you have no understanding of the history of artists and culture and the issues they face presenting their work

"Each country has their own unique culture"
Being deathly afraid of the female form, in a fictional form no less, is not a form of culture, its simply idiocy.
And it's pretty sexist in its own right.

I'm perfectly fine with localization efforts taking certain sensibilities into consideration.
But patting a woman on the head is not a "cultural sensibility" unless we, a.e. "the west" developed into a culture that can't stand to see the female form in any way...

@FNL I agree completely, but why has boycotting become a 4 letter word? If you don't like a company, don't buy their stuff. It's basically the capitalist form of voting. Why do we villify the left or the right for not supporting a business they don't like? I think that politics might be stupid.

@XBontendo

Don't ask me, I agree. If you don't like something for whatever reason, then don't buy from them/listen to them/watch them, boycott them, whatever.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Right for screeching so much about "cancel culture" when they're the worst offenders of it. I wouldn't mock them for it if they didn't make such a big deal out of it.

@Guest88 But it does seem he knows more about the truth behind why this kind of crap is happening than you, by possibly quite some margin.

@FNL like I said, I totally agree.

@impurekind dude. I know why this is happening. It doesn’t take an genius to figure it out.

Damn right you better not censor that booty.

Sounds good, hopefully they stay true to this and dont add censorhip by updates either.

We've been through this already when Fairy Tale got its day one censorship patch. Nothing the devs say can be trusted.

FYI Sony forces devs to censor on ALL platforms in order to release on playstation. If there is a playstation version, the game is "pre-censored" i.e. already watered down to appease Sony just like with Kandagawa Jet Girls.

@Trajan and stupidity continues.

Only time I've seen censorship that was arguably appropriate is for the Japanese release of Fallout 3, where they disabled the option to blow up a town with a nuke. Don't agree with it, but I can see how just having the option could be seen as touchy.

Ultimately, age ratings exist for a reason. There’s a market out there for masturbation games, and as long as they are given adult ratings, there should be no problem. The problem comes when ratings are ignored by parents, usually for violent games like GTA and COD, with the mistaken belief that all games are suitable for kids.

My two cents about this?

Lol get over it

All I ask is for devs to not censoring games. Do like the devs of gal gun did, If a publisher wants you to censor a game, don't release the game for that platform. Censorship of any form or fashion is and always will be a bad thing.

@BloodyMurder That's pretty much the reason why Sony isn't getting Gal-Gun Returns. Their BS censorship

No amount of ESRB or rating will stop Adults from buying for their kids or younger family members. What are they thinking that censorship is a end all to everything. If they aren't willing to censor Violent games like COD or GTA what gives them the high moral to think they can censor others - they don't. Censorship of any kinds teaches us nothing about different points of view good or bad. I say this before anyone talks about censorship take a good look at your own lifestyle and ask what should I censor about myself. To which most won't do this.

@Trajan I think you missed his point. TLOU2 sold well because the first game was one of the biggest, most beloved titles of all time. Let's not act like were people not going to get to see Ellie and crew again after all they went through that it would have sold anywhere near as well given the circumstances. Setting that aside, the game wasn't exactly "woke". It just did a lot of things that disproportionately large number of people thought were unnecessary and ruined the story. And even the people who thought those choices were on account of a certain narrative still bought the game. Because it is the sequel to what too many people consider to be one of the best games of all time. Not exactly a good metric for trying to disprove a whole mantra based off one of the most powerful names and properties in the industry still making money despite it.

"Hey, if you walk up to a random guy and grab his butt, he's probably gonna punch you."

"Well that hot girl who he likes did it in public and all he did was grimace a little bit and still hug her."

"Oh, well nvm."

@nessisonett There are definitely real feminists out there who aren't pressed over the sex appeal of Japanese fictional characters. but why even drag those people into this situation? Do you really think that all or even a remote majority of these games have been censored because of lolis or "underaged characters"? Take a look around. Not saying you're using it as one, but that's far from anything but a strawman at this stage. It's the same tired point that is routinely dug back up and peddled whenever this agenda gets backed into a corner and made to acknowledge that there's nothing actually wrong with what they're trying to "amend". Particularly when we already established that platform holders like Sony can decide that games like Devil May Cry 5 should be censored even further when the youngest ANY character in that can pass for is 25 on a good day, what even remotely defining number of games have been censored because of "underage girls", seeing as it keeps getting brought up? Especially when even IF there is like a 17 and 11 month year old character, the ages in said games are always changed in localization and in tandem, the character models were already anything but representative in the first place? Games get censored all of the time and have nothing to do with that whatsoever.

Just don't pre-order games lol. Like CDPR ( which is loved by gamers ) Lied and screwed up. KT might be lying again....like with fairytail which was made by GUST too lol

@Guest88 let’s go Brandon!!