Nintendo Wins $12 Million From Trademark And Copyright Infringement Lawsuit

Victorrryyy! Glad to hear it. Nintendo has to keep their stuff safe and this should make a decent example.

where there is a will, there's a way, companies keeeeeeep tryin' to stop it, but no matter what, there will always be a demand and there will always be a hundred who will fill that demand
cut of one head, two more pop up

Where are they going to get the money from?

Nintendo should at least leave the retro ROMs alone, since they don't care about the Virtual Console anymore.

Initially you’d think Nintendo was being heavy handed, but the fact that they settled at over $12 million makes it clear these people were cashing in big time on their IP. They got what they deserved.

I mean, I'm glad Nintendo wins, but at least provide us an alternative to get some of these games. 3 NES games a month is unacceptable.

@Nemodius Hail, Hydra?
Not sure that that's an organization we want to be imitating here...

They won't get the payment but it deters IP theft. With this example I do hope Nintendo learns a lesson people like to have retro.

You don't stop piracy by suing a couple ROM sites. If Nintendo actually wants to combat piracy then they need to offer better services than the pirates.

@_aitchFactor
They won't pay it all. A court judgement means that it becomes a debt, so their wages would be garnished, their assets taken and then they will probably declare bankruptcy. It"ll be at least 7 years before they can be free of it and then they'll have to start rebuilding their credit.

It shows that there can be serious consequences for piracy.

It's Done.
I'm glad Nintendo showed their Serious action about gaming piracy.

@FiveDigitLP
Classic Bond fan.....I am respectin' !!!

@Nemodius Yep, the genie is long out of the bottle. It's a pointless waste of resources and poor publicity for Nintendo in a war that they'll never be able to win.

@Joeynator3000 lol glad they dont

I'm of two minds on this. I have always been pretty anti-piracy myself. When all of my friends were getting "free" music from online sites back in the day, I would choose not to participate and call it what it was (stealing). Even now I have friends that brag about using various apps or sites to watch movies for free even while they're in theaters and I'm thinking you're a grown adult thinking this is ok?

Yet when it comes to video games (at least old ones anyway), I get frustrated because some of these companies are choosing not to provide a legitimate way to play them. Or, even worse, there's a aspect of historical preservation to this and I hate the idea that if something is not done some of these games could go the way of the dodo bird.

I'm not advocating piracy, but companies like Nintendo really need to come up with a viable alternative solution.

Nintendo is like the parent who tells their kids abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy and STDs.

The negative comments are from the ones who are to cheap to buy the games.I'm glad Nintendo did this.and what you people don't understand is it will start to scare the other Rom sites.good...go nintendo

There are people here celebrating the fact that Nintendo sued rom websites to take them offline, still refuses to offer any legal way to purchase these games, and instead wants you to pay a subscription service for the privilege of accessing a fraction of these very, very, very old games for a limited amount of time.

@Velocirapstar they are starting to.snes n64 will be there at some point.also I'm sure it takes time to add online to games that came out before online even thought about starting.

making stronger security is nothing more than a dare,
thousands of hackers and electronics hobbyists to do the impossible, and they do it, dump roms/iso, crack firmwares, bypass this and that, it can't be undone

If Nintendo actually gave a crap about preserving the library, I'd be fine with this, but in reality, they're whining about lost profits that largely never would have existed. Just a greedy company that sees money that never would've come. Shame on you, Nintendo. You just crapped all over video game history. This is the most disappointed I have ever been in them. I gladly would pay for so many games that we'll never see again thanks to this decision.

Can someone knowledgeable in laws tell me what happens if they are unable to pay the sum in question? If so how is that amount selected in the process?

While I agree with the sentiment of resentment about Nintendo's current lack of support for retro content...

Nintendo's lack of support or total support isn't relevant. Nintendo owns the rights to their own property. Piracy IS theft.

They went with the stick, but I think the carrot is more effective. If Nintendo makes retro content easily accessible to consumers, piracy becomes less appealing. Sure greed is always a factor and some people would happily pirate software if they can. But it's a risk-reward balancing act. Whenever you download something from a sketchy website you are taking a risk. Some people prefer to pay a few to have little to no risk.

@Slim1999 You're right, I'm too cheap to buy a copy of a game that has not been in production and available in store shelves for decades and the only way to get it is to pay collectors' prices due to scarcity and then buy a still-working authentic game unit and required accouterments which has also not been in production for decades just to spend a few minutes dorking around to gain some familiarity with the context and history of things that are referenced in current games.

If the gates were open and legitimate access existed that worked reliably and affordably (i.e. a pittance of price as the money to be made of these titles in their original state has been made decades ago), this would be a far different discussion. But it's not; we're talking about historical artifacts of which the creating entities may no longer exist for anyone (even Nintendo) to broker
a deal and capitalize on (to say nothing of titles that do not have their assets/codebase stored anywhere to even attempt a recreation/re-release).

I say that if a game or such is no longer in production and the property owner is not making any effort to keep it relevant, they can no longer lay claim to it.

This. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1XZHVYqenw
Also this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeTybKL1pM4
Your downvotes sustain me. I am a gamedev (and musician) myself by the way.

Nintendo needs to do this to the lowlifes that are getting Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee for free. Especially the ones that made it possible.

Just so some of you who don't know. Nintendo didn't sue the couple because of their use of the roms. They were sue for infringing copyrights and trademarks by using those without permission. They can create a rom site and still not get sue had they didn't use any of Nintendo's trademarks and copyrights.

@Nemodius And people shouldn’t be punished in any way for their crimes, as people will continue to do crime, even after others are punished. /S

I never bought any game twice, call it piracy or whatever, but if I own i.e. a copy of Super Mario Bros. for NES I wouldn't pay again for VC or any other milking means. I just download a dump & run it in RetroArch on my other softmodded consoles, whatever it is, Switch, Wii U, PS3, 3DS etc. If all dump' sites will shut down I just buy my own dumper.

@Mrtoad
never said that, just saying it's like trying to swim UP Niagara Falls wearing cinder block boots

@Nemodius
Yesterday, i saw with my eyes there was a game shop in my place that offered a JailBreaking Service for Nintendo Switch.
Oh Gosh.....

Not just only one shop, but ALMOST All game shops in my place (EXCEPT Game Inn Surabaya, the game shop that provide Original ONLY stuffs, No Jailbreaking, No pirated games).

Poor unfortunate peoples will thinking Jailbreaking is the WAY to play and they keep justifying that WRONG way to play.

@RandomNerds It clearly states they don't have that much money.

How the hell would ROM sites even make any money?

Once Nintendo started this up I downloaded every SNES and N64 game in existence. Cost was $0 USD.

@Anti-Matter
well, it happens
I won't necessarily endorse regular ROMs, but "Modded" ROMs and fan made Titular games i do
may be considered the same as "copywrite infringement", but as I figure, those original game companies are not losing any money from games that don't "officially" exist and the makers of Modded and FMGs don't charge money, so NO ONE LOSES, so i have no problem with those

@Anti-Matter I mean, your country is very poor. They do that there for different reasons than why we do this in the west. Typical wage here in a month is equal to 6 months there. Here it is largely convenience, and the discovering aspect. Same with music. Sure some people are cheap, but often those who are stealing it would never buy it to begin with. A bigger issue I see is "repro" cartridges that are 100% fake, and sometimes draw wrong voltage, damaging consoles.

@Slim1999 N64 classic will come at some point, but if you're talking about Nintendo Online, Nintendo has never said anything beyond NES for free.

@penamiguel92 People are pirating a game that hasn't even come out? Isn't it just a remake of Yellow? I'd lol so hard if it was Yellow, but in Unreal 4.

@Trajan Ads and (on some sites) adding on malware and adware along with your download.

@Nemodius Even if it just is temporary, they are shutting down sites that had millions of downloads. And Nintendo doesn’t have much to lose from suing ROM sites. VC games (and such) after the initial development of the emulator are pure profit and the profits for those make up any lost money from the legal fees.

People keep on conflating what is lawful and what is ethical. Apartheid was law, but sure as hell wasn't ethical. Is this?

as @Heavyarms55 mentioned, it is understood the distaste for Nintendo to its lack of support for retro games (even that I mention that this sounds very, very ironic when in times of the Wii and Wii U, the virtual console seemed to the public "something irrelevant" due to the discomfort of the lack of Third Party games on these consoles).

But, it is not correct, as we consumers "promote" illegal emulation / piracy; I repeat, it is understood to want to play those classic games again, in these new systems and legally, but, as you can see in many of the comments here, many trying to "threaten" Nintendo (saying that support piracy / ilegal emulation) for not supporting Retro Gaming is not correct, in fact, and excuse the words, that is "Rude, disrespectful and anti fan"

Now, the correct thing is to continue insisting Nintendo to return the virtual console and support it as it should, even though we must accept that not all games will be available for licenses, but I hope that it can be achieved in the near future.

Wow, congrats on stopping ROM sites and not providing more consoles/games for digital purchase on the eShop, no really

Sorry, but the NES games on Switch are boooooooooooooring.

I'm torn.

On the one hand, it's clearly wrong to host such ROMs because people will use them to obtain games they would have otherwise purchased, be it Wii U eShop, 3DS eShop, NES or SNES Classic, NES Online Classics, etc. Not everyone who downloads is morally or financially infringing though, since many already own the games, often 4-5x over, and simply want a copy of a game they already own that's not sold on current platforms and want to play in HD, or want games portably via GPD Win/Win2 that Nintendo refuses to sell on Switch, or fan translated versions that were never sold in the region anyways.

That being said, I do empathize with the couple's judgement. That's a lot of money to pay and I'm quite sure the actual damages aren't even remotely such a sum, for the very reasons listed above about many people downloading games they already own because they simply want a version Nintendo refuses to sell them.

I believe in fairness. And in fairness there are definitely damages due that they should pay. I'm just not convinced the damages are actually that much.

@SakuraHaruka Whether right or wrong though, if there is no legal alternative, that much more heavily pushes people down the piracy route. It's the same reason why alcohol is legal in the United States. During the prohibition era, when it was totally outlawed, illegal brewing ran rampant and sparked all sorts of problems. But once it was legalized again, and regulated, illegal brewing and associated crime dropped almost to non-existent levels due to the ease of procuring legal drinks. When people can easily obtain something through legal means, that vast majority of people will pick to do just that.

It's really the same thing with retro game support on modern devices, just in smaller scale.

I'm happy Nintendo won!!...is what I would say if Nintendos offerings weren't garbage...as long as Nintendo makes these games unavailable people will resort to roms.

Nintendo seems pretty greedy here. I'm kind of concerned about the defendant having to pay 12 million dollars, I hope that is affordable.

This is only rational if all of those games are available on modern consoles, and therefore this damages potential business.
They're not available and it doesn't damage anything. If I want to play Mario Sunshine or Skies of Arcadia, emulation is really the only option.

I love having no virtual console and paying outrageous prices to scalpers for $5 Chinese single board computers running crappy emulators. GLUG GLUG GLUG

@NintonicGamer there was more then one defendant party and don't underestimate how much money rom sites can generate, especially that these were among the most used ones.

@RandomNerds Did you not read the article? Just because that's what Nintendo was awarded doesn't mean they have the money, you don't "cash in" with emulation sites, if anything they lost money just running them. This was basically a public warning to all other sites.

@NintonicGamer They don't have to pay anything, it was a public display of power on Nintendos part and all you fanboys defending Nintendo on this need a reality check. Rom sites aren't designed to make money, they are there to preserve gaming history, Nintendo, as much as I love them are also incredibly greedy, how many times do we have to re-buy the same game on a different console, why don't they do what Sony does, one account with all the games linked to it.

Be nice to have a virtual console on the switch, plenty of people willing to throw $5 at a few NES titles.

Its not so much the roms but the way they used Nintendo IP to advertise their websites

@tetrapod

I can't play any of my purchased PS/2/3 games on the PS4, I only have the option to rebuy the select few that they decide to re-release so I don't really know what your point is with the Sony bit.

"irreparable injury" that's a joke considering it's not all on the console they are currently selling or the wiiu for that matter.

"hand over the games and emulators" hope its just thier roms, they should back off of the games that aren't theirs if nintendo wants to play that route.

I would love to see nintendo try to douche thier way onto the used retro market, i guarantee they will fail hard trying to mess with them

@Darlinfan The point stands, I believe. Of course apartheid was heinous (I'm from South Africa), but the concept applies, if you so argue. It could be said that not preserving these titles is unethical, but that there currently is no lawful way of doing so.

Also - what if, say, you have a physical copy of Super Fire Pro Wrestling, but want to play it on your laptop via emulation. How is that different from ripping a CD that you own?

Of course, providing it to the market outside creates all kinds of issues. But my point is, it is not nearly as black and white as some would have us believe.

@DarkLloyd The NOS, 3DS VC, NES Classic, SNES Classic are all selling games which this ROM site was distributing without Nintendo’s permission. And the ROM sites were operating when Nintendo was still releasing VC games.

Good on 'em. Now they just need to start pumping out the rest of the NES games and start getting SNES, N64, GC, Wii, GB and DS games coming to Switch too.
If they did like 10 NES/GB, 5 SNES/GBA, 2 N64/DS and 1 GC/Wii a month for Switch Online, with a free "available to keep download" (and a purchase for non Switch Online subscribers) a month later, that'd be pretty sick.

@penamiguel92 Hey I'm paying for LGPE even though I'm not so sure I'm not going to be feeling a bit robbed.
Game Freak, all you had to do was update the game to Gen 7 mechanics. What was hard about that?

Sorry Nintendo, but I hope you choke on your money.

Victory!!!!
Glad too read this.

@Slim1999 I own a hard copy of every ROM I have ever downloaded. Trust me, I wish some of those games were cheap. Stop making bad assumptions about people you’ve never met.

@Dezzy Mario Sunshine is a poor example, because that thing costs only a few dollars. But Skies? Good Lordy, that’s an expensive game...Game Cube consoles are very cheap. Most bundles cost the same as a new game. Just saying, while I fully support emulation I also know that some original hardware is cheap. Now, the TG16? Holy moly, forget about it...

@Frenean The rest of his comment is very sound. While he may not be 100% accurate with his Sony comment, it really doesn’t detract from the overall statement.

@locky-mavo Are you totally out of your mind? Nintendo doesn’t want you owning games. They want you to own licenses. I’m sure they feel the gut punch every time Earthbound gets resold on eBay for over $200. All the big games companies want to eliminate physical games, for the purpose of getting rid of resale businesses, such as Gamestop. Next couple of generations are going to see physical games completely phase out. You can’t resell licenses, and that’s what they would prefer.

@janpampoen I see what you are getting at and I agree with your overall sentiment, but the apartheid example is a bit extreme

@sonicmeerkat I’ll only support VC if I can import what I already bought on my Wii U and 3DS.

What's the difference between downloading a ROM of a game (most of which will never see the light of day again) and buying it off eBay? Nintendo doesn't see a penny either way!

I’m conflicted about this one. If a game is available to buy new legitimately I will do so, if I can get it reasonably priced preowned I will also buy them (though publishers see none of that) but there are still some classic SNES games that never made it to Europe that I’ve only experienced as a ROM that I have downloaded. If they were available in a VC or via SNES Mini (which I bought) I would have got them that way.
Many licenced or obscure games would be lost forever if not for emulation and I would like to see these legitimately preserved in ROM form and given a pass of ownership has lapsed.

@Syrek24 Well said

Pretty sure these ROM sites will just file for bankruptcy and Nintendo won't see a dime of that settlement. In any case all ROM sites need to do is just setup shop in Russia or China and there is no way the courts would ever settle in Nintendo's favor. As we all know the term copyright infringement doesn't translate in Mandarin or Russian.

@Joeynator3000 it is why I emulate. They keep making me pay for my games over and over ir take away access.

@Syrek24 LOLOLOL. Try breaking the rules. Go on. Just once. You might like it. Or are you too scared a mystical being in the sky might have something to say. I feel no guilt or shame from emulating. It has given me access to games not released in this country and games i have paid for several times already. The way you speak you must be an intense fanboy. There are much more deplorable things going on in the World. For example the Trump movement, Brexit, Syria, children starving. Get off your moral high horse and have a bit of fun.

@Syrek24
Nintendo doesn't see a dime from used game sales so isn't that stealing too? Of course it's highway robbery to sell a used game for several hundred dollars too. It's really Nintendos and other big name publishers faults to let emulators get this big when the market for these old games is growing. Let's see restarting VC over and over again always from scratch every gen unlike Sony which allowed crossbuy.

Well played Nintendo. Now, let's hope you have a long term plan for making your back catalogue available in some form. (I'm a fan of the Wonderboy route.)

Yea f**k piracy. This is great news and a victory for video game industry as a whole. Hopefully all ROM sites shut down their 'business' in fear

@Syrek24 "It’s truly incredible what people will do to convince themselves, and those around them, that they’re not the villains others so defiantly claim them to be."

Hold on a minute, I need to go kidnap a damsel

@Syrek24 You make sweeping assumptions like you were a broom.

Good for Nintendo and for anyone else that sees his property stolen and making illegally money. Games preservation and internet world silly arguments need to be thrown to the trash.

Wasn't there a story earlier where Nintendo used Roms for their VC?
And now I read that they get all the emulators and Roms from those sites.
So this could well be a means by which they get more Roms to publish through repossession of these Roms?

Good for you N and good luck on the fight moving forward (you'll need it lol)

Meanwhile if I crave for some SM64 you know where I will be playing hehehe

@Nugundam0079
Okay, why the heck did you swear at me ??

I know piracy is technically wrong, but Nintendo isn’t helping the consumer to get any retro games that they want. If they had VC on switch, I would’ve purchased a bunch by now, but they don’t. And they’ve stopped supporting the 3DS and Wii Eshop, so now we have just the WiiU which is garbage and unsupported for modern games. Nintendo! Help us give you money!!!

@Whalehome I think people forget that a bunch of people who bought a NES or SNES classic have no interest in buying a modern machine. They do however want to put all their classic games on the system.

Then you have the idiots trying to install every game ever made on them. Like Dreamcast games. LOL

@Trajan I bought a SNES classic, but I wish Nintendo would just sell these same games on the Switch. Even if it cost the same price, it would be worth it to me. I haven’t even added ROMs to mine!

The ROM sites make minimal money from ads, yet people are all over Facebook selling Raspberry Pi consoles, with a dozen emulators and 30,000+ games, and making a profit from them, and somehow get away with it

@Whalehome I personally like owning what I like. The SNES classic not being hooked up to the internet and whatnot just seems right to me. I'm not opposed to it being on Switch, but I'd rather have classic consoles. Playing Zelda on Switch right now and its having lag issues. Never had that problem on a classic...

N64 is more important. Not going to back my current gen console just so I can play Goldeneye nicely on a HDTV. Goldeneye will never be released again.

Although me an a buddy still play it regularly via composite. lol

Kinda sad people are cheering for this result just because they love Nintendo that much that whatever they win is a "good thing". Like, I get it but Nintendo needs to provide an alternative for this to be considered something we'd be happy about.

So what's Nintendo protecting then? Their property? The property they've sat on for over 20 years and refuse to distribute? Something that's actively vanishing from our history and we're supposed to be happy that Nintendo made it inaccessible indefinitely?

People who don't look much into this see it as "Nintendo stopped Super Mario Bros being stolen without pay".
People who have swam through that expansive library will see it as "Nintendo stopped over a hundred obscure and niche titles from being remembered by millions".

Nintendo has every right to do what they've done, but I'm not going to be happy about it until they do something that actually lets us legitimately play all those classic games as soon as possible. 3 NES games a month? They certainly aren't going to give us the whole library I can tell you that now, and who even knows at this point what that says for the platforms coming after NES if we ever get those.

Was there a case against one guy that distributed Super Mario Galaxy (or at least downloaded and potentially shared it) in Australia and Nintendo were awarded a lot of money when they took him to court but they settled with him meaning he didn't have to pay the ridiculous sum he would never be able to pay?

@Kyranosaurus people here have a very childlike attitude and vision of the world, no wonder they are cheering this like Nintendo somehow defeated Satan.

Still ROMs will be available, just in less convenient ways. Ironic that Nintendo themselves were caught using ROM sites to upload their own games back in the Wii/Wii U era.

Hmm yes, and now I can't wait to go buy some sealed NES games at Wal-Mart such as Batman, Ninja Turtles Manhattan Project, and Tecmo Super Bowl, all of which are readily available and Nintendo will see their cut from.

Sorry people but Nintendo are under absolutely no obligation to provide their back catalogue at all. Them taking down Rom sites MAKING MONEY from people using their products does not mean they have to provide their games. When people complain they keep forgetting the websites Nintendo sued were making money from the downloads. They weren't providing the Roms for free.

NintendoLife makes money off of ad revenue and they use the Nintendo brand to get clicks to their site so aren't they guilty of something?

ROM sites don't sell ROMs, but they do have ads to get revenue just like most YouTube videos, also free, so I don't see any "theft". It's not even close to being theft. If I break into your house and take something of yours that's theft. You have to be able to prove damages or loss of revenue. I supported VC on 3ds and spoke loud and clear with my money and then it all dried up from an already slow dripping faucet. I asked Konami countless times to release the other Gameboy Castevanias (Kid Dracula, Belmonts Revenge and Legends) but they never responded and so what good did it do to vote with my wallet?

@Trikeboy
Nope you can download them absolutely free. Just revenue from ads you may or not ever purchase just like the ad on this site trying to sell Hitman 2.

@Heavyarms55 Things that shouldn't be legal that are legal are only legal for tax reasons. People were getting rich off alcohol. Government wanted their slice. You think there are noble reasons?? ha.

I would be glad if Nintendo behaved in a more decent and fair way towards both their customers and their games as well, but Nintendo clearly don't care about their customers and they don't even care about their own games, the only thing they care about is the money they make with those games and how much they can milk those games. This is unacceptable and I hope other people will get sick of it as much as me and others as well already have.

@Stocksy It wasn't for noble reasons, but it wasn't for pure greed either. Organized crime was out of control on the back of illegal booze money. By legalizing it they gained control over it and violent crime and many other related crimes fizzled out. History has shown on more than one occasion that it's better to keep something legal and regulated than it is to outlaw it entirely.

I point you not only to booze, but also to porn and gambling as other examples. And when something is legalized, regulated and taxed, a portion of that money goes back into the community. When it's controlled by criminals, it just goes right into some kingpin's pocket.

@Velocirapstar
Kinda hard to offer a service that is better than free

I mean it's ok of course that they want to protect their copyrights and make money with their games but at the same time they should show some respect for those games and for their customers as well. It's thanks to those games and those people if they are able to make money. But it's quite clear that they only care about how much exploitative they can get with the next scam they come up with. That's not ok. I hope fans will give them the punishment they deserve.

@Heavyarms55 History doesn't always show that, which is why drugs aren't legal. Also why most of the world don't allow gun sales. History unfortunately is a mixed bag when it comes to learning lessons, the british empire was rather successful but we wouldn't want to repeat some of the things it got up to.

@Anti-Matter
You live in a scummy place

I dislike piracy, but I believe that a much better way to stop a significant number of pirates would be to offer an easy, efficient legal alternative. Places like Netflix and Crunchyroll don’t offer the same selection of shows that illegal sites do, but they’re easier and less tedious to use, so many people choose to pay for them over pirating.

I admit I am slightly conflicted.

On the one hand, these are Nintendo’s properties and they have every right to have them removed and the offenders dealt with accordingly. They also have no obligation to supply these games through legals means.

On the other hand, I do understand the role Emulators and ROMs have played in conserving older games and making certain titles available to more people.

And yet on the other hand, there are elements of “entitlement” on display. Virtual Consoles are active on 3 platforms (soon to go down to 2) and have allowed purchasing of such games for some time. Yet people continue to justify piracy because the service they want specifically. Its basically no differebt to pirating the latest Nintendo games as they are not releasing on legally on PS4 or PC.

Its all a bit of a mess and a major topic of discussion. I acknowledge Nintendo has every right to do this and from a business stand point was the right thing to do.

Of course we can always “vote with our wallets”; but that only means not paying for something not going out and committing theft. And then argue that it isn’t! If you want to do it then so be it; just don’t expect sympathy if you get caught.

All you guys that are happy with Nintendo's win, you want to tell me that you never played on an emulator? Never?

I have modded my SNES Mini with Nes, SNES, Master System, Gameboy, MegaDrive even Game Gear games and I enjoy a lot.

Don't hide ourselves behind masks please.

And for enyone's ask, I Am 38 and I Am A Nintendo Fan boy.

@steventonysmith
Welcome to Indonesia, the country of PIRACY, Jailbreak, Pirated games, Corrupt, Ignorance.
I feel ashamed with my country sometimes.

@GameOtaku If you want to see the lawsuit, the complaint PDF is right here. https://torrentfreak.com/images/nintendo-loveroms.pdf

@Kalmaro How can you consider that as a victory ? From a consumer's perspective
They still don't want to release an alternative, so what's the point ?

@steventonysmith Everything worth doing is hard.

@Stocksy Portugal legalized drugs and the rate is going down.

Firearms are illegal a lot of places, like Mexico. But lol the cartels. RPGs are illegal in Afghanistan. Even cities here in the U.S. have made firearms virtually illegal. They are not places you want to live. Like Chicago, NYC, or Washington D.C.

@Atariboy such lawsuits can only be "poor publicity" with mentalities one would be hard-pressed to want to live on the same planet with, let alone have good publicity with. Nintendo isn't doing anything they're not legally and morally entitled to do. Whether they sell those old games in any form (which many try to shoehorn into the discussion as their perrenial "no Virtual Console" peeve) or not is irrelevant in this regard.

@PanosDucati and pretending that lack of official distribution legally enables us to pirate roms on these emulators, pretending that creators, producers and IP holders are in the wrong if they choose to put their foot down against it... is not a mask in itself? Well, maybe not - it does sound more like a blindfold. ¯(ツ)/¯

@Trajan I understand there is no point talking gun laws with an American so I wont bother - for every example you give I can give loads where gun crime isn't an issue.

Same with drugs. You can legalise it and comsumption goes up but so does the black market as it undercuts the tax rate and provides strong strains. I believe this has been found the case in America.

My original point was and still is, nothing is black and white but 100% governments do not make changes for noble reasons, they do so to create money.

Same reason they turn a blind eye to certain wars and get involved in others, nobleness never plays a part, money and deals do.

@Syrek24 How can you steal something from a company if they no longer have it? Are you even a person or some kind of Nintendo-developed AI? "Scanning... Morality: Negative. Proceeding To Chastise Individuals Attempting To Have A Positive Recreational Experience."

@Trikeboy Yes, you're quite right. Nintendo isn't obligated to do anything. That doesn't mean whatever they do is right. They don't HAVE to make their back catalogue accessible... But when they start taking down major resources for games preservation and not offering an alternative, it's bad on the whole for gaming as a medium. If people have no way to access older games in the future, so much of gaming history is going to be lost.

Also, they WERE providing the Roms for free. Nowhere in that pdf that you linked does it say they were actually selling Roms. They made money from the ads on their website, but I doubt they made a significant amount, probably just enough to keep the sites running (although that's just me guessing).

@nhSnork piracy is illegal and at the same time producers and IP owners are in the wrong if they don't give peoplew FAIR means to own their games. It's not like if one is wrong the other must be right for sure. People who shamelessly pirate games to have them for free are wrong, people who want to buy games and use pirated roms only if the publishers don't give official ways to buy them or offer their customers only unfair deals to play their games do something illegal but not really wrong imo. At least it is as much wrong as the producers themselves are so it is just a matter of defending your own interest against people who started being unfair with you in the first place. Producers shouldn't have only the right to earn money with their games but also some obligations towards their customers. One cannot have only rights, rights come with duties as well. Nintendo shouldn't be exploitative to its customers, but laws protect only their interests. Laws themselves often are not right.

@goggles789

I did deliberately say "modern consoles". It's just unrealistic to expect everyone to hang onto every old console. I live in a fairly small flat. I wouldn't have space to keep more than a few consoles.

@goggles789 if Nintendo want to eliminate physical games why are the eshop downloads more expensive than physical copies? I don’t know about switch but on Wii u eshop Australia splatoon is still $79.95 AU but at the shops (that still have stock) $48 AU. Thus most of my games are physical copies.

Ah, great, decisive victory! 2 gone, 14574747576668+ to go.

Cya
Raziel-chan

@Joeynator3000 There are NES games on Switch, egghead.

@Velocirapstar
@Syrek24 was right.
It was about controlling our DESIRES to NOT get into Wrong way to play video games.
If i cannot get into video games legally, just Let Them Go.
I will NOT get into piracy or illegal ways.
Find other hobbies or interest, entertain yourself with those Alternative choices.
Life is NOT all about playing video games.

@Atariboy "Yep, the genie is long out of the bottle. It's a pointless waste of resources and poor publicity for Nintendo in a war that they'll never be able to win."

I disagree that it's a waste of resources on Nintendo's part, and I also don't think they are under the delusion that they can eliminate piracy by doing this. Nintendo doesn't need to completely eliminate piracy in order for this to be useful to them. Actions like this discourage large sharing sites from existing, thereby driving piracy more underground. This has the double effect of making pirated games less accessible to the average technically unsophisticated person, and sends a clear message that getting software this way is not considered legitimate.

As far as your point about it being poor publicity, I disagree and think it's a net win for Nintendo. Sure, there are people who will hold this against Nintendo, but I don't think those are people whose opinion Nintendo should value, for similar reasons to why a shopkeeper shouldn't worry about how calling the police on a shoplifter will affect the shoplifter's opinion of the shop.

@LightBeam To keep people from producing a means to have a product stolen.

@afternoontea Doesn't really matter if they made money or not, what they were doing was illegal.

@Trajan Advertising and affiliate links, basically how this site makes money. But to everyone’s point yes I agree they probably don’t have that money. I’ll put myself in the box of shame now.

@tetrapod You got me I read the headline. Got two kids, no time to read. I’m sorry.

@Joeynator3000 nes classic, snes classic and maybe n64 classic.

@Velocirapstar exactly! take music piracy as example... I used to download tons of mp3s but nowadays it's much more convenient to pay for Spotify. It's a non brainer.

While the way Nintendo deals with their IP is sometimes infuriating, I don't believe it gives me a right to take what I haven't purchased. However, I also think Nintendo (and other companies) do everything they can to strip away my rights provided under the first-sale doctrine.

I purchased tons of Wii (and Wii U) software on the eShop, but when I sold my Wii somehow I lost my right to what I purchased. Even though they could look at my Nintendo account and see that I purchased that software, their response was basically a polite middle finger. So while I believe they have a right to protect their IPs, they also should be taken to task and held accountable for violating my (and everyone else's) rights.

@tetrapod
You are absolutely right, it was an "ATTEMPT" at a show of power

I say "Attempted" because in ULTRA-UBER Reality, it ONLY "Projected" an "Appearance" of power to other software companies and consumers and people who don't download anyway like those here posting how happy they are at Nintendo's success,, but it was NOT the kind of success they think

but the ULTRA-UBER Reality remains that Nintendo's "Show of Power" was like an 8 year old child wearing a Macho Man Randy Savage Halloween suit, it looks good, but nothing else
Power gives you the ability to effect the outcomes of things
but the Piracy Community KNOW AS FACT that Macho Man Randy Savage "Show of Power" is just paint and fluff, it will not intimidate, or make anyone pause or reconsider and will have neither any long OR short term effect effect whatsoever

it was a Theatrical Performance, anyone not going to the theater is not affected by it, in my new catch phrase "ULTRA-UBER Reality" it was ONLY a Business Politics move and nothing else, it makes them look good, stocks may nibble up a little for a couple months, system and game sales might increase too, but the Piracy Community is laughing it off
and if some of the comments on this very page suggest, it may have actually had the OPPOSITE EFFECT, several people have mentioned having or going to be bulk downloading everything they can get their hands on while they can probably for the next two weeks, that will eventually level back off to normal when the paranoia subsides and downloaders realize their resources will not go under

many of you supporters of no copyright infringement activities may not like what I said, but that doesn't change the fact,
it was a magic show to impress those who want to be impressed, but as convincing as the magic seems....
it's still just an elaborate illusion, not an effect

@Petriebird You just answered your own question. Digital = more money for Nintendo/no chance of resale/total control of their licenses. Physical = less money for Nintendo/they lose cash from people buying used games/people can rip carts/discs to make ROMs. Nintendo is a multimillion dollar corporation. Which path do you think they’ll take?

@Nemodius I mainly agree with your sentiment, but I have to say that it’s getting harder to find certain ROMs and ISOs. Luckily, I downloaded the NES, SNES, and GB full libraries from emu paradise years ago, but finding good PSX ISOs for certain games took some considerable digging.

I know Nintendo and the other big companies don’t like rom sites, but I’m thrilled that I have backups of all the physical games I own.

@Stroopwafel Just a myth
https://youtu.be/2bt0s9YSMio
@goggles789 The main difference is that the person who is selling that copy of SMB on EBay can’t magically make his one copy of SMB into millions of copies. While for downloaded ROMS there can be an unlimited amount of copies made from that one ROM.

@goggles789
you do realize the same hackers that have been dumping ROMs from the carts have also been copying and recompiling DLC games for Switch since the begining also right ???
hard or soft, it is a software file to hackers, so assuming digital downloads are more secure is pretty ignorant

give it 2 more years and flashcarts will flood the market and people will no longer need to use hardware hacking dongles

as for more difficult finding roms, most people just go to torrent sites for new and older games anyway, not rom sites, rom sites have not just the same chance of corrupted and infected files as torrent sites, but most rom sites implant their own hidden ware when you accept cookies, so i prefer torrents anyway, but in my defense, I only have ROMs and ISOs of games i had legally paid for and Modded/fan titular roms, so I'm not stealing profits from no one, so i am guilt free as far as I'm concerned

@Darknyht Well, the sad truth about digital purchases is that they severely limit consumer rights. It’s the reason I haven’t bought a game on Steam in over a year. Granted, I did buy the relevant Wii U and 3DS titles for the VC, but I know if my console goes, my “digital licenses” also go. I agree with you, though. Nintendo should have some kind of buyback option....something to take the sting off knowing that once your console is gone, so are the games.

@Mrtoad What’s the difference if Nintendo doesn’t see the revenue? And yes, the guy on eBay can potentially turn physical game into “millions of copies,” because even today the hardware exists to make ROM dumps of physical carts. Mainly, I’m against piracy, but only if it causes harm, like in cases where a small indie studio loses money on a small release. Nintendo isn’t feeling a financial hit every time Super Mario World is downloaded.

@Syrek24 So it's wrong to be disappointed in a declining quality of service from a company? As an extreme case, if Nintendo only made the most recent iterations of games in various series available, revoking all access to previous titles upon the release on a new title, would it be unjust for consumers to be upset if the new game wasn't as good as the previous one offered, simply because they get the pleasure of playing video games? Please, correct me if there's a flaw in that analogy of your argument.

And indulge me to indulge you with a rebuttal to validate your opinions. While it's unfortunate that I'll be demoting your post from the position as the sole petulant, moral high ground-seeking post in this whole comments section, five paragraphs of moral indignation over downloading video games can't go unrewarded. So, let's begin.

Let's discuss this issue from a purely non-maleficence standpoint. The downloading of ROM not made actively available by a company (within reason, say the company has not made these available and has made no indication that they will be made available in the future) does not harm the company in any direct way. They weren't offering the service, there's not even remote potential for any kind of "lost sale." Worst case scenario, someone plays ROMs instead of buying new games to get that "new-game fix." Does this invalidate the person from getting that new game ever? No.

It should be concerning if developers are struggling to compete against older games. Should they not be creating better and better iterations on ideas or fresh, alternative interpretations of mechanics? Maybe a new, great story? Why, despite having access to millions and billions more bits, faster processors, and larger human resources, and the knowledge of successes and mistakes in previous entries, can game developers not trump the games which came out decades before under stricter technical limitations? More work might go in, but is it creating a better product? Apparently not. So maybe a company is harmed through indirect causality, at best.

Now, if the company was offering the service, then there would, in a sense, be the potential for direct loss. Someone could choose to download a ROM over legally purchasing it. The company's ability to grow as a product of its efforts would be stifled, potentially costing people employment opportunities. Maybe not harm, but reduced betterment.
Now, let's consider the consumer. Consumers have two real resources: time and money. Surprisingly, people who only have a limited time to live want to use their life doing the specific things they want to do. In the case that a company has its ROMs available to purchase, the consumer is able to exchange an money, typically earned by spending time doing something they might or might not want to do, for a product or service they desire. The result is the financial betterment of the company (leading to the betterment of the life of workers or newly hired employees) and the betterment of a person's life through getting to spend time doing the thing they specifically want to do. Both parties benefit.

Naturally, people can't act solely on desire. Law exists to prevent us from acting on certain desires and create conflicting desires. But, what determines law? Some laws are moral, some are tools of oppression. My guess if that your definition of morality is molded by law. That said, at no point in your post do you ever say why it's immoral to downloads ROMs. I can tell you why is isn't, in this case.

When a company does not offer a service (specifically if they are the only company capable of performing that service) they deny the ability for this transaction to take place and neither party can receive the betterment that they desire (see: Nintendo hates money). And sure, you can take this to an extreme if you place it in the realm of services never provided before or services that are unprofitable, but this is not the case here. This was an available transaction of mutual betterment that has since been abolished. However, the consumer is able to, in a sense, receive that voided betterment through an alternative means, since the company has shirked its duty to serve the consumer. And yes, companies are subservient to consumers. All companies need consumers, but a consumer doesn't need all companies. As a result, companies must act to please consumers or perish. As long as it fails to offer a service, the company voids its right to receive rewards for a service. However, in the interests of maximum betterment, if that service can be offered by other means, the consumer should have all rights to access it.

With my mental gymnastics concluded, I dismount my moral pommel-horse. You can't make everyone stop downloading ROMs, but life goes on.

@Nemodius I actually didn’t know that! Thanks for the heads up. Good on them for preserving digital games. It’s always a shame when a game is lost due to obsolete hardware and such.

@bilboa That being said, cool rom is still going strong, as is rom hustler and a few others.

@Kalmaro It was illegal. Was it also unethical? Law doesn’t always define ethics. Is downloading a game from 30 years ago unethical? Especially if the game isn’t offered on a current digital platform?

@SomeBitTripFan
well, i don't feel so bad now hoping people won't think me the only long winded talker in here

@Nemodius: I've got an essay due later today, so where better to warm up.

@SomeBitTripFan
LOL it wasn't an insult bro, LOL

@Nemodius: Didn't take it as one.

Wait, didn't you have Odolwa or some kind of tribal-looking dude (lots of fur or something and a cane) as an avatar a few years back?

@goggles789 Depends on if you believe following the law is ethical.

@Kalmaro That answers all my questions about your opinion of the matter.

@Syrek24 That’s a rather overly dramatic take on the situation. Maybe making assumptions about people you don’t know or have never met is the problem?

@goggles789 “What’s the difference if Nintendo doesn’t see the revenue?”
There can only be so many copies of Nintendo’s old games on the market. ROM sites can print an unlimited number of ROMs. 8 have been to ROM sites where the download count for some games is larger than how many copies the games sold!
“And yes, the guy on eBay can potentially turn physical game into “millions of copies,” because even today the hardware exists to make ROM dumps of physical carts. ”
When did I say that no one but rich people in their guided towers were the only ones dump ROMS? Yes, the average person if they really wanted to could dump ROMS and have it downloaded millions of times, but it really doesn’t matter if (like most people on Ebay) he just keeps his one copy, one copy and just sells it to another consumer.

@Mrtoad Cool story bro.

@goggles789
https://youtu.be/bA5mBcHX6NY

@goggles789 I understand that (and I accept the consequences of it), but just because the method of delivery has changed they shouldn't be able to bypass consumer rights.

However, the reality is that most laws are written on behalf of major donors in the US, and the companies like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft have lobbied hard to purchase their infringements on what has been established doctrine for years. In all reality copyright should not be anywhere near as long as it is, and most software past 28 years has little commercial value. But instead of common sense applying we have laws designed to protect the very small percentage of fringe cases that can make profit, propping up corporate revenues and preventing our public domain from being enriched (while all the non-viable software is left to be preserved by piracy in a legally precarious situation).

@goggles789 Seems we understand each other then. I firmly believe that laws are what makes things work, and we can't say we're a law abiding society... When things are convenient.

Otherwise, how can we condemn other people for breaking the law? We'd be hypocrites.

@Syrek24 I'm going to take that as an indirect response. In response, I have this to say:

You've said a lot of words. They don't mean that much, let me condense that down for the average reader:

"I don't understand and I'm not going to try to understand the other side of the argument, so I'll just say it's ridiculous. Also, drugs are bad because they're illegal. Not purchasing things is illegal, but I'm not going to discuss the morality of it at all. I don't understand and can't engage in moral/ethical arguments, so I'm just going to belittle the other side since I know I'm right.

Unless you purchase a game, you don't legally own it. I'm not going to talk about morality though, because I don't really get that argument. Nuanced situations shouldn't be considered. I'm going to frame the necessity of companies to offer desirable products as them owing the consumer and I'll belittle you if you think they should offer desirable products. Video games are not important, so why is anyone writing long dramatic posts in a comments section about this? I'm going to continue moralizing about video games and how they aren't important. I'm going to vaguely suggest that downloading ROMs is immoral since I equate legality and morality.

I am among the few right people among a group of horrible wrong people. What is a mirror? I am right and almost everyone else is wrong. People do not listen to the right things I say because they are wrong. They don't agree with me because they are wrong. And they're not good. What a sad and miserable life they must live, because they are wrong. They believe they can disobey the law, which is not a reflection of morality, purely because they want to play a video game."

Hi Kettle!

-Pot

@ Mods and Admins: I am very sorry if my tone has been harsher than desired for the environment of this comments section. I simply desire to refute the vacuous appeals and non-arguments presented by this user. If you consider my postings thus far too heated or verging into harassment, please inform me (although I imagine that would happen anyway). (Basically I'm a tad bit afraid that I might be entering the territory of breaking rules by being more directed.)

While I'm all for companies protecting their IPs, this highlights an ever-growing problem in this day and age: no easy access to old products in a legal manner.

And I'm not speaking about videogames only. Nor I'm saying I'm for piracy. What I'm saying is that most companies out there are usually failing pretty bad at offering their old catalogue of products to consumers. I saw this happenning in schools recently, where a movie (from the 90s) used in some work sessions isn't available on DVD and teachers have to rely on an old VHS tape because there is no legal way to buy a DVD copy anymore.

I'm very glad to see Nintendo and Sega and Sony and SNK and Atar doing retro micro-consoles with a bunch of games on them, but these aren't encompassing all that was available back then.

I saw a recent study that showed that movie and TV piracy was on the rise, after many years of slowing down. One theory is that the streaming market is now segmenting itself across various services, each with a subscription fee, which means anyone wanting a diversified offer now needs to pay a lot more money to watch what they want. Every company and network now wants their own streaming service with their own exclusives. All the people who became cable-cutters because they didn't want to pay cable companies a ton of money are now asked to pay a ton of money to watch what they want. That doesn't excuse piracy. But it's easy to believe that there's a connection.

What this highlights, is that companies need to think about offering an easy, affordable access to their back catalogue, if they want to reduce piracy. If they put too many hurdles (of logistic or financial nature), then this actually pushes some people towards piracy. Not saying that this is right. Or moral. Or legal. Just an acknowledgement that this happens with some people.

I would be all for Nintendo creating some sort of "Netflix for older games". They kind of got the right idea with their online subscription service, although their execution of the concept leave a lot to be desired, IMO. Do that with most NES games, SNES games, and even other platforms (like the old VC had), and you'll see a lot less interest in piracy out there.

@Trajan Yeah, some rogue reviewer or GameStop employee extracted the full ROM, posted it to a file sharing site, and people with hacked switches can download and play the full 2018 game... I wish Nintendo had some sort of way to report these criminals.

@Tasuki The thing is, until Nintendo actually provides a more suitable and accessible alternative to legally obtaining this old games and not relying solely on Nintendo Switch Online to do so, there will still be people out there who will try to emulate the ROMs of these games just so they can play them.

@Mrtoad
Thnx for clearing that up!

Here's a challenge for the anti-emulation side: all those sought-after games and consoles people put on eBay for hundreds to thousands of dollars? Buy them. Buy them all. If you think the current system works and that sustaining it is morally correct, then participate in the system and buy the games and hardware for their current prices.

Look, I'm a guy who prefers having legit copies of games, but if someone wants to play a game from years ago and it's expensive, requires an expensive console, and is not available as a rerelease, I don't see the actual harm in using a ROM to play it. If you as a company do not actively do anything with your library, this is going to happen.

Why does it matter if the losers were married?

@SomeBitTripFan
Im not entirely certain?
unless that symbol looks like an 8 legged cephalopod,
why bro ???

@NerdyBoutKirby
I think the reiteration of the couple's marital status was also a paft of the fluff
it looks bad enough when one person running a "black market" business, but a team of a married couple....
(no offense ladies) but stereotypically women are an incredible oddity when it comes to "crime on this magnitude", so a married couple makes the situation seem even worse and so the fake success of the taking down of a major crime syndicate looks MAGNIFICENT in the eyes of the business world and day to day consumers

but as I mentioned before, in post #131
it's all an illusion for the benefit of those who don't even involve themselves with such activities

@Darknyht Right!

@Kalmaro Makes you wonder how prohibition worked! All I'm saying, is that you are coming off as being very black and white, and even across history there have been areas of grey that get worked out as time goes by. You're coming across as "all piracy = bad, no matter what." I happen to think it's more circumstantial than the written law outlines. Remember that in law, there is always the question of "the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law." Sure, the letter of the law makes sense when you look at games that are readily available in some physical or digital format. Take those games down. But, when you have a game that is completely out of print/production or lost due to lack of relevant hardware? It's literally harming no one, and starts to hinder the spirit of the law. Not to mention, people who own physical copies of the games they have ROM/ISO files of aren't breaking the law. It's just not a good way to look at life, so I don't live that way. I always question the letter vs. the spirit of a law. We all should be, instead of blindly following like sheep!

@Mrtoad Ness is a pretty cool guy, and Earthbound is a pretty cool game.

@goggles789 I believe the best answer for that is to ask yourself :

1) is this game mine?
2) am I entitled to this game?

Doesn't matter if you're looking at the letter or the 'spirit' of the law, the rules don't change. You shouldn't take something that doesn't belong to you.

Justice is served..This is what happens when you steal ...hahahaha

@Syrek24
"This is yet another sobering example as to why you should never treat video games with such seriousness."

Coming from the bloke who gave us an essay on why people who download ROMs are immoral villains. XD

@Syrek24 So, more insults and moralizing? Is that all you can do? You don't address the points people are making, let alone begin to make an argument against them. Maybe work on your reading comprehension?

@Nemodius You're name just looked familiar was all.

I've realized I was thinking about PlywoodStick. He made long comments.

This seems excessive.

Though I need to know exactly who will have to pay this money, before I get upset about Nintendo bullying the little guys.

@SomeBitTripFan
Nemodius was the name of my great grandfather in Greece, he nicknamed me "Nemo" when I was a little bitty, I was always very shy and spent most of my time toiling over experiments and inventions and rarely associated with people or family, he said in ancient Latin, the word "nemo" means "No One", I was his invisible little friend, always there, but never seen, I liked it, so I kept the nickname even now, but it has had no infuence on my love for the cephalopod: octopodiformes, that pure love was long before my nickname, so no jokes

Emulators ruin lives (well in a way)....trust me........ (actually it depends but oh well)

@Nemodius That's awesome man. Like... just spectacular. My username is just a hangover from my start on the internet, posting comments in the Bit.Trip Runner 2 Dev Blog. Too nostalgic to let it go, though. But I envy you having such a cool, personal username.

@Syrek24 It's satirical, my friend. It's easier to understand when you're not high off your own "insight." XD

And someone will turn that "insight" into a copypasta if you keep this up.

@goggles789
"But, when you have a game that is completely out of print/production or lost due to lack of relevant hardware? "

Life is Full of Temptation.
Back to ourself to feed our DESIRE by getting the games in illegal ways or just let them go.
We can still live without games and i will not cry for the games that completely out of print.
Maybe i will cry for the games i like most, but i will move on after i'm ready to let them go.
Beside, when we pass away, we will not bring our games to Another World. So, trying so hard to preserve game ROMs are completely useless. That thing is Not Eternal. Someday it will decomposed / destroyed by itself.

@Anti-Matter
"Not Eternal. Someday it will decomposed / destroyed by itself."

they may just be games to you......
but to others, not so much, those games took creativity, tallent and innovation, it may be digital, but in really is no different from any other literature or art or any other medium of knowledge and/or entertainment

they were also "owned" by someone at some point, but it was those who appreciated those things that kept them from degrading and decomposing into oblivion

So when does Nintendo make these games available for purchase?
Yes, Nintendo is the copyright holder to many of these games (but not all, let's remember that). However, I've always been in favour of "use it or lose it" copyright laws. Copyright holders should be required to make reasonable efforts to keep their copyright active by continuing to try and sell the product. If they remove it from the market and do not use that copyright, they should lose it.
Period.
We have remakes of Super Mario Bros. Nintendo has, in good faith, continued to use that copyright. Cool. What about the others? What about the games that haven't been available in 3 decades? Why does Nintendo, who isn't even the copyright holder, get to gatekeep that? Why do we continue to support copyright trolls who refuse to use the products they control?

@Anti-Matter Most people use the fact that we are going to decompose as an excuse to do nothing. I am not one of those people, but thanks for offering your expert advice.

@Kalmaro Spirit of the law doesn't matter? You need to read up on some court documents, read some history books, get educated on the matter before entering discussion. Legislature, juries, judges, attorneys, etc, are constantly weighing the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law. It's kind of a basic, at this point. You sound like the kind of guy that doesn't even want to entertain the spirit of the law in any way shape or form. It's a good reason you're stuck commenting on a website instead of enacting actual law. Here's to hoping it stays that way!

@goggles789 Sounds like you completely missed my point, which is fine because you probably wouldn't have agreed with it anyway. I never said the spirit of the law doesn't matter.

You also ignored my questions, which is fine too I guess.

I just want to mention that you are not legally in the wrong for downloading ROMs. The distributors are the ones who would be considered legally at fault.

@Anti-Matter I found it really difficult to find legitimate media products in Indonesia other than music CDs. If you wanted to buy a legit film, it was usually only on VCD, and that was a select few films in a larger shop (and of course, VCD is a vastly inferior product, with a pixelated film split across two discs). Otherwise you go into the huge DVD shop that sells almost exclusively pirated DVDs. Actually, I do remember a few shops selling proper retail DVD films, but they would be something upward of 1 juta rupiah! With video games, I don't think I EVER found a place where you could buy proper retail video games. This was in Bandung; I don't know what Surabaya is like.

@Nitwit13
Oh, are you from Bandung ?
Well...
There are at least 3 game shop that sell Original games (Game Inn, Next Game, Game Republic) , but Only 1 shop that still sell Original games & machine ONLY (Game Inn).
Guess, the other shops are Grey Market (Sell the Original as Camouflage while keep running a dirty business by accepting Jailbreak Service & Copying Pirated games onto HDD).

Oh, Original Movies are NOWHERE to be founded at Surabaya. Only 2 Gramedia (Mall Ciputra & at Basuki Rahmat street ) that still provide Original DVD & VCD Movies by licence from PT Vision Interprima.

@retro_player_22 But didn't they win a certain amount for every one of Nintendo roms hosted?

@nhSnork

I didn't mention enywhere that is legal.
I agree, but I don't think that we should all pretend the happy man, for Ninties victory, because if it weren't roms we All had missed Many exceptional games.

@Stocksy this is way off topic, but I recommend actually talking to someone in recovery.

Your firearms position also comes from ignorance.

@penamiguel92 that is crazy. They have no excuse.

@j-life That got apply to lawsuit too but only because they got caught using those with all the Nintendo copyrights and trademarks not to mention all the ads they had running on there.

Good luck getting them to pay it lol.

@JaxonH I agree with fairness in this case.
Nintendo should hunt down ROM sites because they allowing illegal use, they need to protect their brand and copyright

But I do not see much fairness from Nintendo when it comes to use support.
Right now Nintendo is only look forward.
So we are not seeing any backward compatibility or descent "retro" store on the Nintendo Switch.

It would not be hard to make the Switch read and play the old NES, SNES and N64 games. And then you just have to put the old game file on a Switch game card.
And there we go old games in a new format.

I would had used the words "North American" in place of the letters "US" in this part of the article if I were either its creator or one of its creators:

"Earlier this year in July, Nintendo filed a lawsuit against two ROM and emulator websites at the federal court in the US state of Arizona for trademark and copyright infringement."

@Velocirapstar Exactly! Give the people what they want (and have been asking for) or they will find a way.

Personally, I'd use a ROM site if they exist. I'm not paying Nintendos BS prices for a 20+ year old game. I guess I'm not a perfect boy scout like so many are pretending to be in this comment thread though.

Get lost, Nintendo.