Virtual reality is one of those things that seems supremely popular, but technology isn't always willing to keep up with people's expectations. PSVR among others are noble efforts for certain, but Nintendo has kept itself firmly within the old-fashioned 2D TV world with the Switch, at least for the time being.
That hasn't stopped third parties trying to muscle in on the craze though, and exklim is one such company with their NS Glasses. These promise a 3D experience compatible with all existing games using 'passive 3D' technology. The truth of the matter is different however.
Traditional VR headsets use two separate lenses, one for each eye, and require a screen or screens to show two separate images, one for each eye. The brain then does what brains do, and makes a 3D image in your noggin with depth and everything. The NS Glasses use two lenticular lenses that stretch the entire width of the device, one in front of the other. In theory this gives the wearer a 3D effect, but in reality it does little more than give you a headache.
The headset holds the Switch in place by using a large, red clip. This has been specifically designed for the console and it certainly shows, holding it firmly but safely in place with ridges and notches that allow it to sit neatly and without wobbling. Sadly once you put it on the weight of the console becomes apparent, and given the almost absurd length of the headset, it's not a comfortable time.
Given the nature of the device, it's extremely difficult for us to provide photographs that accurately represent how the image looks to the naked eye, as camera lenses and eyes don't work in exactly the same manner. As such we've provided both an actual photo (left) and a mocked-up recreation (right) to gives as true a representation as possible.
The screen becomes slightly distorted and blurred, hiding jagged edges, and a notable amount of chromatic aberration is present. This is when certain colours of light are offset slightly, giving an unusual colourful 'glow' around certain edges. It's distracting and unpleasant.
The image does not even remotely appear '3D', either. The only explanation we can think of for someone believing it to give such an illusion is the way the lenses cause the edges of the screen to appear blurrier than the centre, giving a similar look to tilt-shift photography. It's a stretch at best that this effect could be sold as 3D.
The manufacturer were also kind enough to send a second unit intended for developers. This behaves in much the same way, only considerably more intense, and is presumably designed for game-makers to create a version of their game which takes the distortion into account, but the blurring and chromatic aberration is also intensified, so it's really hard to see how this could work in practice.
The appeal of 3D gaming is still alive and kicking, and the ability to immerse yourself in an entire world without borders is indeed one that many have dreamed of for decades. Unfortunately, the NS Glasses not only fail to deliver such an experiences, but they actually make playing games more uncomfortable and the various distortions it provides are irritating and distracting.
It's a noble idea to bring the Switch into the VR space in any form whilst Nintendo refuses to do so, but this is a product that disappoints in nearly every facet.
Thanks to exklim for providing the headsets for review. If you want to learn more you can do so by clicking here.
Comments 263
Sounds like duct-taping my phone to my face would be a better VR experience.
I have no desire to ever buy a VR head set. Nintendo or not.
@LUIGITORNADO Have you ever tried one?
I'll stick with my PSVR for this kind of thing thank you very much.And my Switch I'll be using as my JRPG machine.
That looks like an absolutely nightmare to wear. I see no appeal in this device whatsoever.
@LUIGITORNADO you should try a good one, the experience can be amazing and a total game changer
It sounds like even in 2018, Nintendo STILL hasn't learned from the Virtual Boy and WHY modern VR has been relatively successful, even if it still isnt where it needs to be.
Sounds terrible I'll stick with my psvr
@LUIGITORNADO
For what it's worth I do think the ps vr is a fantastic (albeit expensive) bit of kit
@Tuosev but this headset isn’t made by Nintendo. This is just some random company trying to make a piece of hardware into VR when it wasn’t made for that.
I would actually love if Nintendo decided to enter the VR market. Although I haven't been interested in the technology at first, I've tried various headsets since then and now I truly believe VR has a big gaming potential. And I feel Nintendo is a company, that could popularize VR with their unique approach to both hardware and software development.
@LUIGITORNADO nuff said
As someone without depth perception, I doubt this would've done much more than blur the screen even if it did work as intended like whenever I end up watching 3D movies at the cinema. Then again, perhaps it'll actually function for me since the average viewer doesn't see the effect?
Well that was to be expected. I guess even using PSVR with the Switch (which works in theater mode) is ironically more immersing than this thing.
Looks great. But the pain in my neck is real. I want this tho
@Tuosev remember this isn't a licensed Nintendo product
April fools.....?
It sucks because that's not how VR works. Both software and hardware has to support it, every eye has to receive slightly different image.
I would go as far to say that Nintendo should stop this thing.
Yikes !
Looks terrible.
Sounds like it's basically like the magnifier attachment we all used to have on our Game Boy's, but less effective.
Anyone who even thought this would give anything close to a "VR" or even "3D" experience will be disappointed.
@LUIGITORNADO That's because right now you clearly have no clue at all what you're missing and just how utterly compelling and magical the best VR games/experiences can be--and in that I mean they go far beyond anything you will ever experience on the likes of a Switch.
VR is the future of gaming and entertainment*, and if you like gaming at all now then I can promise you, without any doubt in my mind whatsoever, that at some point in the near future even you will come to realise just how brilliant VR is and how completely ignorant you sound right now.
That is just how utterly amazing and paradigm-shifting VR is when done right.
*And, just to be clear, in saying that I'm not at all saying VR will replace all other other great ways we game and enjoy entertainment right now, but it will sit alongside those other forms, and it will be the best of all of them in most use-cases.
@ShadJV It's not trying to make it into anything even close to VR. It's just making a new way to look at the game, and all the marketing or hype or whatever--certainly the physical look of the thing--is making people think it even remotely comes near what proper VR is. But this in not VR in the slightest. In fact, this is probably even less "VR" than Virtual Boy was--and that's saying something.
Anyone trying to sell "VR" with a 720p screen should be laughed at. Even if that's not VR.
Besides, even current VR tech isn't THAT impressive to me. The most impressed I was with VR happenned last week, when I tried a setup of a dedicated machine that makes you believe you're flying. You're strapped face down to some sort of motorized contraption, that moves with your orientation. You have to move your "wings" to fly, and there's even wind being blown at your face. What's impressive about it wasn't the VR in itself (powered by a Vive headset) but the combination of everything, and the machine moving you in sync with your movements. Tried other VR games as well, shooters and others, but without any real-world stimuli to immerse you better, I see VR as nothing more as a cool toy that is fun to try from time to time. And yes, I tried others as well (Occulus), many times as well in the past. I'm only moderately impressed.
Pixels are still way too big for me (wake me up when we'll have a 4K screen for each eye), and 3D effect in VR is still "faked" by not making the difference between each eye the same as in real life.
Anyway, the problem with this "VR headset" for Switch, is that it isn't VR, and it also gives people a bad impression of what VR is about. People not having experienced VR trying this will not only be let down by the product, but also VR in general (even if, to me, it's cool but not at a level that impresses me a lot yet).
@Spectra It's not VR. It simply isn't even close to what real VR is. It's basically more like sticking a 3D screen a few feet in front of your head in a dark room (by virtua of the 3D effect the headset apparently provides). That's not VR--it's not even close.
Good God... What a fiasco.
@Realnoize Then I should probably wake you up right now:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimax8kvr/pimax-the-worlds-first-8k-vr-headset
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcZ0CXP0qgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8iFOhC2j6I&t=1s
https://www.pimaxvr.com/en/8k/#page4
And it also has a near-200 degree field of view too, which is another major game-changer for VR.
Also, I'm not sure what you're talking about saying the 3D effect in VR is faked. It uses the same stereoscopic 3D that our eyes use, with each lens giving a slightly offset view, and that is how real 3D works. What it doesn't have is variable depth of field, which might be more what you're talking about or something. But even the depth of field stuff is in the process of being solved too by the likes of Oculus.
Note: The Pimax 8K X, which is coming really soon, is actually the one with true 4K per eye without any up-scaling.
Welp, what little interest I did have, just went flying out the window. Back to the drawing board fellas.
@impurekind Eat a snickers, dude.
All I said is that I will never have a desire to buy VR. I didn't rant about market trends and tell everyone why it's never going to reach mass market appeal. You're acting like I scraped a "My Child is an Honor Student" bumper sticker off your Tesla.
I don't like the implications of using VR. I like being able to turn to my right and see my wife sitting on the couch. I like to be able to turn to my left and see the neighbors taking out the garbage cans. Gaming alone can be isolating enough.
I have no desire to wear a headset, voluntarily restricting my line of sight.
It's a difficult fear to explain. Best that I can is that it's almost like thousands of years of genetics and evolution are telling me I need to keep an eye over my shoulder incase that sabertooth pounces through the window from the street and makes me lunch.
If you think that's ridiculous, then so be it. I'm not telling anyone why they shouldn't buy VR.
@impurekind @LUIGITORNADO didn't say anything negative about VR, just that they have no interest in it. That doesn't make them ignorant, it just means they have an opinion about something.
I happen to agree with @LUIGITORNADO, VR is just not my thing. I don't want my vision restricted either.
@LUIGITORNADO I’m actually gonna keep a Snickers on my person from now on. I want to see if it really can keep beast mode at bay. At first, I thought your comment was funny and then I was like “huh... I wonder if that $#!+ works.” I’ll report back with my findings.
The company should be kinda ashamed for the blatant lie-video they have officially linked on the main page for this product on their site, certainly without making it very clearly this is just some random online who doesn't have the slightest clue about VR having a go on the device. It's not a VR headset, and the company knows it, so slapping that video on the product page with VR shown in a massive font on the thumbnail is just totally and utterly misleading.
@LUIGITORNADO And, given that you clearly like gaming (and probably a lot or you likely wouldn't be here and posting in the first place), all I'm saying is that you are totally and utterly ignorant about VR to be making such short-sighted assertions that are just going to make you look stupid in a few years time when you too are thoroughly enjoying VR.
You basically just made the kind of statement some people actually made back when video games first came around, saying stuff like "These video games are just a gimmick and fad and they won't last long"--and now look how dumb those guys absolutely do look.
Again, if you game and enjoy it at all now, I'm telling you that even you will be playing games in VR in the not too distant future and thoroughly enjoying them.
Now, if you have some genuine phobia of sticking a headset on your face, maybe you'll never really get into it--and I did meet one guy when I was working in and demonstrating PSVR in GAME a while back who genuinely panicked as soon as he put the headset on and just couldn't get past that--but I personally doubt that's truly true of you too, even if the current headsets don't make you feel entirely comfortable right now.
I don't care about vr
@DigiF4N You will.
If you're in here because you currently enjoy playing video games on whatever Nintendo console--and surely that is the case--you will.
I'd put a lot of money on that being pretty much a fact that will come true in the not too distant future--you having and interest in and genuinely enjoying VR--especially if Nintendo ever makes a VR proper VR headset, which I actually expect it will eventually, or even just puts some of its more popular games and franchise on/on VR.
But you'll probably just have to trust me on this one for now. . . .
@impurekind Dude, luigitornado clearly explained his reasoning as to why he doesn't want to play VR. He's not crusading against its mere existence, he's just saying why he's not interested in it. Please don't call people ignorant, short-sighted or dumb just because they don't share your opinion on gaming. I may be a nintendo fan but I'm not going to insult Sony or Microsoft players for not appreciating the hybrid nature of the Switch over traditional consoles. Different strokes for different folks.
Don't care about VR, it's another gimmick like 3D.
Cya
Raziel-chan
@Razzy See above.
You are very clearly beyond ignorant on this subject. You just don't realise it--yet.
Of course 720 (total] 30 FPS would be a terrible VR.
@Medic_alert Exactly.
This is the kind of product that's just bad for VR and that I cannot get behind at all personally.
VR is SOOO much better than this junk.
And I wouldn't have a major problem with this cheap peripheral thingy if they weren't trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, but the fact they have a YouTube video on the main page for the product with a massive VR word in the thumbnail that comes across like an endorsement of the device as a "VR" headset--and you know they did this very much on purpose--is reason enough for me to have a genuine beef with them.
So it's $50 to look like an idiot while you're basically just wearing the Switch screen?
...Nyuck Nyuck Where do I sign up?! :B
well fair play to the manufacturers for making Alex look like a clown but this torture device looks like it would bloody kill your neck
@LUIGITORNADO I can definitely relate to the surroundings restriction. That’s probably my biggest issue with VR outside a controlled (read: empty) environment. I’d be to concerned with not knowing my real life awareness.
My neck hurts and my eye caught fire just looking at that.
@LUIGITORNADO There are people who say they never had a desire to buy a PC, an automobile, a smartphone before they became mainstream. And then everyone had one, and they did.
I won't say it's a guarantee, but VR has enough potential to replace the smartphone which means it would have a market of billions of users. Though in fairness this requires a combination of AR and VR.
If billions of people are using VR, chances are, you will be too.
Physical isolation is also only a short-term issue. In a few years, headsets will scan real life, merge it with VR, and you'll see real life overlayed into VR. And give it a number of years after that and it will just be glasses that go transparent and opaque on command
@Razzy You've never tried VR before then. It's a shame that gamers are so shortsighted sometimes.
@Medic_alert Sony might not have gone all in on the hardware, but their software lineup is getting a lot better for PSVR. Mario Odyssey now has a rival: Astro Bot. I'd go as far to say that it's more innovative and more magical than any Mario game in decades.
Wow, this product actually came out. What a joke.
@Medic_alert I wouldn't worry too hard about Sony. What they have right now is still pretty great, even with the limitations of Move and the camera as they are, and you can obviously still have amazing VR experiences on the PSVR even as is:
https://www.roadtovr.com/astro-bot-rescue-mission-review-psvr-playstation-vr/
https://www.roadtovr.com/astro-bot-ranked-6th-best-ps4-game-of-2018-23rd-of-all-time/
Just one example of a recent PSVR game getting a lot of praise.
And Sony is almost certainly going to release a newer and even better VR headset in the not too distant future, so that's all good imo.
What I do wish, however, is that Nintendo would get properly on board and release an awesome VR headset--but I think that's still quite a long ways off, sadly.
I'm sure the uninitiated, oblivious, casual Switch gamer will rant, rave, and condemn Nintendo and the Switch for the agony this would cause them lol. Remember folks, "Nintendo" didn't make it
I still say VR is a gimmick and will only ever be a niche product.
And, yes, I've tried VR, and while the technology is undeniably cool, I expect it to take off about as well as 3D televisions.
@Medic_alert I doubt it will drop it next gen consdering this hardware is actually a relative success and is just going from strength to strength. Again, as I linked above, PSVR has just gotten one of its very best games recently (first party at that):
https://www.roadtovr.com/astro-bot-rescue-mission-review-psvr-playstation-vr/
https://www.roadtovr.com/astro-bot-ranked-6th-best-ps4-game-of-2018-23rd-of-all-time/
So, by almost all accounts, PSVR is doing very well right now and Sony is very happy with where it's at.
And VR is just becoming better and better and more and more compelling and cheaper and cheaper, which is great all round.
I have little doubt Sony will release a new VR headset in the not too distant future.
@Mountain_Man Luckily for me, you're wrong.
Again, only people that are genuinely pretty ignorant of where VR is at right now and where it's heading in the very near future would still be calling this some kind of fad or niche or gimmick or whatever.
Within the next couple of years, literally, we'll have VR headsets that are fully wireless, can display in 4K+ resolution (per eye), at near 200 degrees field of view (pretty much human field of view), with full 6 degrees of freedom tracking on both the headset and the two wireless motion controllers, and at a pretty affordable price.
https://www.pimaxvr.com/en/8k/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AvXOlcFmPU
Not too long after that we're going to get reliable eye tracking, variable depth of field, foviated rendering and more:
https://youtu.be/o7OpS7pZ5ok?t=4471
And that's just the technology that is coming on leaps and bounds.
We're now starting to see some proper full-length console quality games too:
https://www.roadtovr.com/astro-bot-rescue-mission-review-psvr-playstation-vr/
https://www.roadtovr.com/astro-bot-ranked-6th-best-ps4-game-of-2018-23rd-of-all-time/
VR is just getting better and better and becoming more mainstream and more affordable every day, and more and more companies and people who get what's so special about it are getting on board. Everything that VR needs to stick around and become a major success is all falling into place just as expected and predicted by most people who actually have a proper clue, like Michael Abrash.
VR's continued success in the future is relatively assured at this point.
@Mountain_Man Okay, so you say you've tried it. But you don't understand it. Some of your previous comments already show your lack of knowledge in the area, saying that "VR is a physical display therefore it can't replace physical displays"
If you understand VR, you know full well that it has a high chance of being mainstream. 3D TVs are such a small addition to a TV. VR is a literal change in human experience on a civilization scale.
In 5 years, when you can replicate a human body almost perfectly in VR, it's going to bridge a connection between people at distances that almost rivals reality. Loneliness will be much much less common because of VR, and it's a technology that could effectively teleport you to any real world place as it's happening in real time, and a device that can replace all other screens and devices by simulating everything.
So why after all of this would one say it's going to be a niche? Because they don't understand it.
And no, VR won't be isolating indefinitely, and no your brain will not be able to tell the difference given enough artifical stimuli.
Most of your notions about VR are false.
@Medic_alert Yeah, all I can say is hopefully you have a friend that gets one at some point. I'd definitely say that VR is the next step for Mario, or at least a future step that should be capitalized on, because well done VR gets us past a ceiling of quality that hasn't really shifted in decades.
Once we have the first serious Mario VR game, I'd be surprised if it wasn't the universal favorite Mario game because it would be too magical compared to prior games for anyone to really find as much enjoyment or wow moments elsewhere.
Some folks in this thread: VR’s not really my cup of tea
A certain person replying to almost everyone: vR’s NoT mY cUp Of TeA
Just because someone doesn’t like VR doesn’t mean they’re hating on it. I’ve never tried it, so I don’t have an opinion on it.
To get back on topic... Good video, Alex! 😃👍
@Medic_alert Although everyone is prepared for those kind of attach rates. Reason being because this is consumer generation 1 of the medium. The first consoles, PCs, and smartphones only sold a few hundred thousand units in their lifetime.
Technology has only ever taken off after several generations.
@DartBuzzer Yeah, if Nintendo did a proper full-on Mario game for VR, I personally feel it would be the most exciting and amazing and closest thing to a major paradigm shift in that franchise since Mario first went full 3D with Mario 64. That's how much of a game-changer VR is and can be in the right hands.
@Medic_alert All the stats I've seen, and everything else, already says it has legs. Your relative lack of that knowledge doesn't change things.
VR headsets are cool, but not the “end-all” future replacement for screens. Not even close yet. AR and VR gonna have a fight though. I personally prefer AR experiences over VR, but both are a bit too distracting for me (call it peripheral paranoia) to get really immersed. Headsets in general seem lame to me. VR without a headset would be truly fantastic, but you need a whole room currently. What’s really lame is telling everyone that your personal predictions and opinions are absolutely correct and that there’s no room for another way of thinking.
This particular device is more like a fancy screen holder abomination type thingy. Definitely not 3D or VR.
@hatch What reasons suggest this? There's really no reason why VR can't be mainstream. There's also no such thing as a stop-gap, because VR ultimately is the final medium as it can simulate every medium given enough time.
@hatch Yes, but you're wrong. Not only are you wrong about current VR, which although not yet perfect is still utterly compelling and more exciting and fun that most of the stuff happening on more traditional gaming devices right now; you're absolutely wrong about future VR.
If current VR is a "stop gap" then so too is basically every current console and handheld and the like, which is just ridiculous to even suggest, because all tech is going to move forward and get better in the future. But where VR is at right now is more than good enough to stand on its own exactly as is right now. It will, however, continue to get better and better, and we will of course see new and improved VR headsets and experiences going forward, obviously.
I still can't believe this thing is real and not a joke. It just looks hilarious. Hard to believe the makers of this thing are serious.
@Green_Sensei AR and VR are going to be two rivals playfighting with each other before becoming best friends. Which means that they will only compete short-term for 5-10 years. 10+ years from now, almost every headset will just be a AR/VR hybrid or to put it better: XR glasses.
You will not find a problem with wearing glasses, believe me. Today's headsets I can understand, but no one is really going to complain that they have to wear a pair of sunglasses that gives them superpowers.
If they do complain, then well I don't know what to say except they'd complain about everything in life.
@impurekind Completely agree with you. Proper VR is not going away and is quite viable in it's current form. Resident Evil 7 VR for example is quite the experience. I don't understand why some people are so keen on writing off VR entirely. As gamers you'd think we'd all be a bit more enthusiastic about the tech.
@Medic_alert No, what it actually shows is simply a level of knowledge and understand of VR that is beyond basically everyone else making claims along the lines of VR might not stay around for too long or that they'll never be interested in it. That's just the truth of it really.
@Akira_1975 Probably because most of them haven't actually tried it, or they played one crappy game or maybe watched one crappy 3D video in VR and think they get it, and they probably also lack any vision too.
And I totally agree about your last point--it's beyond disappointing how disappointing so many so-called "gamers" are in their [usually ignorance-based] attitude to what is basically the most exciting thing to happen in this industry since the dawn of full 3D, and quite possibly even in the entirety of the industry.
@impurekind
Maybe I'm getting older, but the idea of people plugging themselves more and more into social media and technology worries me. The day that there's no option for traditional gaming, the day you HAVE to play games with a VR headset, is the day I quit playing new games. Optional, fine, but I'm not interested in avoiding reality to that degree. The fact that I can play my Switch next to my fiance while she watches a tv show, be able to also watch the show and talk to her, without slapping on a headset and avoiding everything else, is awesome and it's what I prefer. Videogames don't need to be that serious. I feel bad for the future morbidly obese VR addicts who sit in a chair all day with a helmet on.
@hatch You can't really say that AR and VR are stop-gaps to MR because MR (I call it XR) is literally not a technology of it's own, but a spectrum. MR / XR just means a complete circle: AR and VR together. It's still either AR or VR or a blend of the two, not some mysterious third figure.
Now if you were to say AR and VR 'headsets' are a stop-gap to MR / XR 'headsets' (or glasses) then I'd agree.
@hatch They're not "stop gaps"; they're precursors in the same way the NES was a precursor to the SNES and the SNES and precursor to the N64 and so on. All totally and utterly have value in their own right, and even if nothing more ever came along would stand the test of time in their own right for what they did and do. VR will continue to get better and better but gen 1 of VR is already good enough to stand on its own regardless of what happens now going forward. This is VR established as a platform and paradigm and from here on it's just a matter of getting new generations every few years, as is the case with most great entertainment technologies, and certainly gaming consoles since the days of the Atari 2600 and the like.
@impurekind
Also, you're incredibly defensive of VR. You buy Oculus stock or something? Trying to put down and insult anyone who disagrees with you only makes you look bad here mate
@Dalarrun You do realize that you could be playing traditional games on a full blown replica of an IMAX theater that feels just as real, which could be private or shared with friends that look indistinguishable from their real life counterparts - and you'd feel their actual physical presence beside you. You could see your fiance as well because reality can bleed into your VR experience to any degree in the future. What if you are apart from your fiance? Are you going to use facetime and still really miss each other, or feel almost entirely connected with VR?
Is it scary? Sure, maybe. But is it useful and beneficial? Absolutely. There are no downsides aside from simply wearing a pair of glasses. (in the future)
Also it's ironic to call VR users morbidly obese when they are more likely to be getting more exercise than the average gamer.
@Dalarrun Because I actually know how utterly amazing it is and will be even more so going forward.
I'm a fan of VR, and if someone wants to claim something that absolutely isn't a gimmick or fad is such then I will call them out on their complete ignorance of that which they speak.
That is all that's happening here.
I will be jumping in with the OCULUS QUEST. No wires.
@DartBuzzer @Dalarrun Exactly: This guy certainly isn't morbidly obese (or won't be if he keeps up the routine):
https://vrscout.com/news/man-loses-138-pounds-beat-saber/
PS. This game is frikin' amazing in VR.
@WhiteTrashGuy Nice. I think you'll have a lot of really great fun with it. And, if you have only really played on traditional gaming devices until now, particularly Nintendo consoles, you might be amazed at just how far gaming has advanced in the last few years, particularly when it comes to VR, and just how much further we still have to go with gaming and interactive entertainment in general.
@impurekind
That's fine, but people can disagree with you. No big first party games and very few AAA games use it (actually I only know if Skyrim and RE7 that do), and I don't see that changing for a few years. If they add it, it'll be a small little piece of side content. By the time it becomes the norm I'll have had kids for a few years and gaming won't even be my main hobby anymore.
@DartBuzzer
Why, though? Instead of focusing on virtual worlds people need to be productive in the real one and stop letting it go to gcheck ybgybbbybbybybybbybu
@Dalarrun I'm sure they do disagree. But having an opinion, which everyone is free to have, doesn't mean you're entitled to pretend the world isn't the way it is and the things aren't the way they are. I'm just calling out the ignorance and misinformation when I read it.
And there's a lot more games in VR that are worthy than you seem to know:
Skyrim VR, Doom VFR, Fallout 4 VR, RE7 VR, WipeOut VR, Elite: Dangerous VR, Project Cars, Zone of the Enders 2 VR, Serious Sam VR, Tetris Effect, Minecraft VR, etc.
Also, VR is actually its own platform and entertainment paradigm too, so it's creating its own major brands and franchises that are just as worthy of the limelight as many of the games you mentioned:
Astro Bot, Beat Saber, Superhot VR, Moss VR, Defector, Arizona Sunshine, Tilt Brush, Quill, Farpoint, Edge of Nowhere, Rec Room, Chronos, Lone Echo, Firewall: Zero Hour, Stormland, etc.
@impurekind
VR isn't anywhere near close to mainstream yet. That's reality. Won't be for a while yet.
Wow. The rear ended hurt is so real around here. You guys really love VR!!! In the Real Reality, lets call it RR, VR has not been that successful. I’m all about new experiences, but you guys are swimming in kool aid. Give it time to prosper before you give your existence to VR. I’m sure it’ll flourish one day as well. Maybe just calm down. RR gaming needs a revamp too...
@Dalarrun That makes no sense. You can do both. You can't expect all these optical scientists and engineers to start working on a solution to global warming or other problems - because they have no idea; that's not their field, and they have the right to pursue their own dreams.
And besides, there are many limits to reality. VR can be used to overcome many limitations of our world, like distance. We first managed that with radio and telephones, but it's still nothing like being with each other. VR is like being with each other and considering how social we humans are, it can help billions of lives based on that one use case alone, and that's just a small snippet of VR's capabilities.
In a decade or two, we're all going to look back at this and realized how we managed without VR, just like we wonder how we managed without other modern mainstream technologies.
@Medic_alert No, that's your dogmatic stance that shows that. You just don't realise it at all.
Not only do I own a proper VR headset, and have tried quite a few at this point, but I'm also creating a VR game, and I've worked for companies like Rare and Rockstar Notth as artist/animator and level designer respectively. I make games for myself now. And I also actually do stuff like sit and watch the entirely of the Oculus Connect conferences, all of them, and read about VR every single day and stuff like that too.
What about you?
@DartBuzzer
Again, that's technology you aren't going to see for a while, and even when you do it'll be very expensive. I'm talking about the users who are going to waste away in a room because of VR instead of interacting with the real world.
@hatch But MR is just a mechanism to drive a blending state between AR and VR. Either you are in AR or you are in VR or you are in a blended state between the two which can certainly be called MR but considering it's just a blend between them, I can't really call that a third figure.
But anyway this is all just semantics at this point. I think we both agree that AR/VR hybrids aka MR/XR is the true future of these types of technologies.
@impurekind
Ah okay, there's the bias. You're working on a VR game so you need to blow it up and act like VR is the second coming of Jesus Christ. Gotcha. No further discussion needed.
@Dalarrun But it will be, and not too far in the future, and that's all that really matters here.
What's your argument gonna be then?
It's not the biggest mainstream thing EVER?
@Dalarrun No, again, that's your ignorance.
I'm working on a VR game because I'm already 100% aware of just how utterly amazing and paradigm-shifting it is, objectively. And I stand up for it and big it up because I absolutely love it because of how stunning it is, and I know almost everyone who currently loves normal gaming will love VR too in not that long a time--even the ignorant ones.
And, if there was ever a "first coming" in gaming, let's say it was when gaming first went full 3D, then VR absolutely is the "second coming".
You just don't get that yet--but you will.
@Dalarrun It's very likely to be here faster than you think, much faster. To quote Michael Abrash, chief scientist at Oculus: "If all of my 4 year predictions come true, and virtual humans also lands, then a virtual workspace that replaces personal computers is a done deal."
He's predicting high fidelity VR with audio so real that it might as well be real sound, with virtual humans basically indistinguishable (or close) from reality, with the ability to replace physical displays, and the ability to see all your body including hands and fingers - all for 2022 at a consumer price.
Believe me, VR is advancing far faster than anyone even comprehends.
This is where VR avatars are now in research: https://media.giphy.com/media/dh231p7ddVAdsUbmy2/giphy.gif
And if you think that's fake, then this shows a clearer picture, though note it's earlier research: https://www.facebook.com/Engineering/videos/10156364573567200/UzpfSTE5MjkyODY4NTUyOjEwMTU1NjQwNzkzMzI4NTUz/
@DartBuzzer The humans being indistinguishable from reality won't be here in the next 4-5 years, of that I have zero doubt, but much of the other stuff he says absolutely will.
Note: Imo, the reason he thinks we'll have virtual humans indistinguishable from real humans in that time is because, unlike his amazing understanding of VR, he doesn't actually understand humans very well and/or how much it actually takes to truly represent a real human in an artificial way that another real human wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
We'll likely have some great avatars in the next 4-5 years, and in some aspects they'll probably look "photo-realistic", but it will be a long time before you can stand in a room with a virtual human and not almost immediately be able to tell it isn't [images of] a real person moving and walking and talking and such just by looking.
@Medic_alert Maybe you do know business, but you really don't get VR. You are wrong, but you just don't realise it yet. And, if you want proof that as of today you are wrong and I am right, then come back and talk to me in say 5 year time, and we can look back and see if I'm absolutely right in saying you are wrong and I am right. . . .
If VR has basically died a death in 5 years time then you can jump up and down the victor.
If VR still going strong and has only gotten better and better and went from strength to strength--well, I'll be enjoying that VR (and likely you too).
@impurekind It's people like you that make the Comments section (on any website) feel so toxic.
Someone's mere opinion has triggered paragraph after paragraph of pointless rants and insults. If you didn't agree with someone, all you had to say was, "I really think you'll change your mind someday. You just haven't given it a fair chance."
Did you see how short and easy that was?
If petty opinions make your blood boil this much, you should probably go out more and work on those issues.
@impurekind To be fair he said he wouldn't bet on avatars indistuishable from humans in 4 years, but also wouldn't bet against it. What we'll probably get in 4 years (for avatars) is something like the Facebook engineering video I linked, but with a full body and fingers tracked. Extremely realistic nonetheless and probably a good 10 years ahead of where people think VR would be.
It's pretty clear though that we'll be way past Ready Player One by 2045 at this rate. I'd expect us to quite literally surpass their technology as soon as 2030 even since they didn't account for AR/VR hybrids.
@diablo2 It's ignorance that breeds the thing you hate the most. It's not my job to be a diplomat. You can go back through all the comments and post what you wrote above each time some ignoramus makes an assertion about VR's future that simply is based on nothing but pure ignorance--if you think it will help.
@impurekind Lol okay, smart one. Go do your thing. Go show the world how it's done.
@diablo2 And you can go back through all the comments and post what you wrote above each time some ignoramus makes an assertion about VR's future that quite simply is based on nothing but pure ignorance--if you think it will help. I'm 100% supportive of your cause in making us all speak nicer to each other. But I'll leave that up to you because that's not my forte.
@impurekind Motion control and 3D were the future of gaming at one point too. Until the expensive equipment, strained eyes, and tired bodies caught up with people and everyone got bored.
The same will happen to VR, I promise you. It will find a market within VR arcades, but the home console experience will drop it hard come next gen.
@DartBuzzer Yeah, he's quite smart about the way he words things because he obviously knows a lot of the variables involved.
I expect so regarding Ready Player One.
@Richnj And motion controls are still going strong, stronger than ever in fact--in VR. As is 3D--again, in VR.
In fact, the best "3D movie" experience I've ever had was watching The Lion King in stereoscopic 3D inside my Oculus Rift on a giant private cinema screen.
Your point?
I don't disagree that certain versions of motion controls and 3D were largely gimmicky stuff, like the original Wiimote and particularly how most games used it, or stuff like the Kinect and Eye Toy, or the crappy version of 3D in the cinemas that required us to wear those annoying glasses, but all that tech set the foundation for where we are at right now, and where we are at right now [with VR] is on the edge of a major paradigm shift in gaming and entertainment as we know it, probably the biggest one we've even seen.
Again, you're very wrong about VR in the home and stuff like that--you just don't realise it yet.
@Richnj You're promising something based on a problem that doesn't exist. Seriously, can we please get past this misconception already? VR does not, I repeat does not automatically mean tired, exhaustive gameplay. That's pure choice.
I mentioned Astro Bot earlier which is a relaxing seated game and yet it's absolutely amazing. VR can be relaxing (even more so) for gaming or intense - it's all up to you.
There are going to be people using VR only for seated games and people using it only for intense games or even just for exercise. Then there are people like myself who will use it for all types of gaming including traditional games on virtual screens.
There is no reason to believe that VR will mostly reside in arcades because 99% of VR doesn't even work in an arcade. Most of VR is meant to be experienced at your own comfort.
@Medic_alert Trust me, if the facts about VR and its future were pointing in any other direction then I would absolutely be objective enough to say so--they just aren't.
Again, only ignorant people at this point are still claiming otherwise.
@gauthieryannick VR will take of well, well before that. And what you are talking about might never happen (plugging right into the brain and being like the Matrix and stuff), so you're just wasting time dreaming of what is likely just a fantasy movie/TV version of something that is already amazing. But it is fun to imagine for sure. You really should check out where VR as it right now, however, because it's already brilliant. Even just playing simple games like Beat Saber and Superhot make you feel like a Jedi or Neo from the Matrix--honestly, give them a proper go if you don't believe me--and this is just gen 1 VR. Just imagine where it's going to be at in say 5, 10, 20, 30, etc years. . . .
@gauthieryannick People would go crazy if Ready Player One technology was here. You don't need a neural interface for VR to take off. Motion sickness may be solvable using GVS or something similar and even if it cannot be fixed, everyone will still be able to use VR for something because only certain gaming content induces motion sickness, whereas non-gaming (6DoF) content will not. And since I said certain content, this means there will always be games that can freely be played without sickness.
@gauthieryannick VR already took off, it just isn't mainstream yet.
I own a PSVR and it's amazing. So many creative ideas and experiences, the true Nintendo feeling of this generation of consoles.
The reviews of Astro Bot seem to indicate that it's the most innovative 3D platformer of this generation. I will wait for the demo next week.
VR is the biggest leap since Mario 64.
But hey, sheep are always late to the party.
@BigKing This guy right here gets it.
@Medic_alert Hey, most arguments are.
They really hit it out of the park 😄
VR does have a lot of potential but the technology just isn't there yet, unfortunately.
@DakkaDakka Well it's already there enough to provide gaming experiences that are easily as compelling and fun as anything on the likes of Switch, easily--I'm talking about proper VR here--but it can and will get much better still.
The technology is already there. It's awesome.
I bought my PSVR for 150 euro on Black Friday. The most innovative consumer tech for a few measly bucks and people are still complaining. Just seeing your friends experience it is worth the money. It's quite a party/social thing to me. Swapping out the headset and laughing at each other.
@impurekind do you have Rez? If not: buy it. Area X is the most magical VR experience I had(don't watch videos, you need to experience it)
@BigKing Nah, I've not been able to try Rez in VR yet. But I've had some genuinely amazing experiences for sure.
@impurekind "but it can and will get much better still."
Very true statement. We're still in gen 1. Everything in VR runs off an exponential curve of improvement. If you increase the resolution by a large amount, you get an exponential increase in immersion. Same with FoV, same with HRTF audio, same with haptics, the list goes on...
You can replay something like Astro Bot in 5 years and be blown away again because of how much more in the world you are. The sense of scale will feel ever more real.
Simply put, if we had retinal resolution headsets today, Astro Bot would be getting something like 98/100 on metacritic because the magic only increases as the hardware increases.
@impurekind get it man, trust me. I know the trailers and stuff aren't that impressive, but it that Area X is magical. The best VR experience to me, right next to Superhot
@impurekind Yeah, I have had some fun experiences with VR and I think it has enormous possibility... but it still has a lot of problems to overcome in the meantime.
@impurekind My point is that rather than all consoles now coming with motion consoles, and all TVs coming with 3D as standard, we actually saw everyone take a step back.
The very limitations of motion controls and 3D meant they were not automatically a boon to all gaming genres. Just as the limitations of VR are not a boon to all gaming genres. Something like 1080p and 4k. Yeah sure, that can be applied to every game with zero negative effect. You try that with VR and you'd quickly realise that it doesn't work.
VR is cool, 3D and Motion controls are cool. But they are cool in certain genres or experiences. That limiting factor, along with the need for additional equipment is what will prevent VR from becoming the standard.
@impurekind I realize this isn’t VR, the manufacturer is the one trying to market it as such.
@Richnj VR doesn't have to be a standard, it is a new way of experiencing things. It doesn't replace your casual couch gaming sessions, you can still do that. Some games are better without VR, some are impossible without
Wow, this comments section turned into a real Church of the Holy VR of the latter VRaints. I guess the Holy VR gave its believers the power to see into the future so that they can say with 100% certainty that their prediction will come true and others' won't.
Also, I can't take seriously at all someone who calls the other person an 'ignoramus' in a serious discussion and not as a joke.
Cya
Raziel-chan
@Richnj VR might not be a boon to all genres, but it is a boon to many genres. Heck, take a multiplayer game of any genre and VR is a massive boon due to ability to have social presence.
But VR is much more than just a way to play VR games because you can use it to play any traditional game on a perfect dream setup that you wish you had in real life. Just the resolution needs to get higher to fulfill that dream.
@Akira_1975 it looks worse than the virtual boy and that thing was a monstrosity.
@Razzy you don't need to look into the future, it's already awesome.
Besides that, it's not so hard to see which tech has potential. It reminds me of when the first smartphones were released(way before the iPhone) and people were like: who needs a color screen on a cellphone and who is going to use internet on such a small screen?
Turns out everybody
@DakkaDakka Well, almost all of the things you aren't entirely happy with will get fixed in time, and not long. But even now I still think it can provide some of the most compelling, fun and magical experiences of any gaming and entertainment platform, even with the technology exactly as it is today (and my experience is with an Oculus Rift CV1).
@DartBuzzer @BigKing And that would be fine, but again, let's take a look at 3D. It's not replaced 2D viewing, but how successful is 3D?. It's been around since 1920s (I think), and has had several attempts to push it in cinemas. And we've had a huge push for the tech in homes. On consoles, Blu-rays, and TVs. But in 2018, who's using 3D? Who's really pushing the tech in film and gaming experiences?
No one. The only successful 3D story was the 3DS
It's not that I didn't like 3D. I was the only one in my gaming group to buy a 3D TV. But as my eyes strained and support dropped, I stopped using the feature.
So why did everyone drop 3D and what made the 3DS successful (but yet Nintendo have still dropped the feature)? It's the additional cost for hardware and limited use for the tech. The 3DS had it built in, it was the perfect way to sell the tech. The only way to sell it. Trying to push the tech on to TVs meant additional hardware, for every person wanting to join in. Sitting around and sharing a screen was just not a feasible option with the tech. Like I've been saying, it has limited uses, making the tech a luxury purchase on top of another luxury purchase. As consumers look at that higher entry point and turn away, studios will stop producing content for the tech and focus on more lucrative endeavors, and tech companies will move away from the tech to find something more lucrative too.
Not being standard means you have a smaller margin to keep that business going, and when (not if) that margins shrinks, all money and support goes too.
@Richnj Yeah, those were largely clunky and gimmicky implementations of such tech. VR is the actual proper realisation of all those technologies, in one single device/platform, and properly done right this time. And, again, this is still only gen 1 for VR--it's just going to get better and better and better.
But, like most people, you don't seem to quite grasp that with VR you can basically play every single kind of game and genre that has prior existed and pretty much exactly as you have always experienced but just on a virtual screen--and that's if you simply use VR in one of the most basic ways it's capable of playing games and entertainment.
Again, the best 3D movie I have ever experienced was The Lion King in stereoscopic 3D in a virtual cinema on a giant virtual screen inside my Oculus Rift. And playing Eternal Darkness, an old GC game, in stereoscopic 3D for the first time, on a giant virtual TV screen inside a private virtual room with a little NES sitting in the corner, was literally the best way I've ever experienced that game too--and that was just hacked to play on my Rift by some hacker and not even an official product. I can only imagine what an official first party version of a game like Eternal Darkness could be like in VR, but it might be something a bit like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVRXukjKUw&index=17&t=20s&list=PLgzzAlT_CcFfyTE2R8dnHKns8-9IUzzO2
If you don't know what Eternal Darkness is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98l4NUlIiUk
The potential for VR to improve pretty much very genre of gaming and almost every facet of gaming, and indeed most entertainment, is so far beyond what most people seem to understand that it's not even funny.
Don't understand why a couple of folks in here are so defensive over VR. It's definitely not for everyone(some people literally can't handle VR due to heath issues or conditions). It's fine if you yourself enjoy VR, but it's nothing to jump down everyone's throats about if they have something even slightly negative to say about it.
@impurekind Dude- he’s just not into VR. Right, wrong or indifferent, it’s not hurting anyone. Move along.
I love how triggered people get when I say that VR will always be a niche product. So now the latest narrative is that I don't "understand" it? Hahaha! I always imagine people who say things like that looking at their VR headset collecting dust on a shelf and desperately trying to convince themselves they didn't waste their money.
Saying that it will be "niche" is not the same as saying that it will be a failure. There are a lot of very successful niche products on the market, and VR will be one of them. It's not going to be a "every home has one" kind of success for the simple reason that most people aren't going to want one because of certain inherent limitations that can not be overcome with technology.
I think VR's greatest success will be in science and research applications and not home entertainment.
@KryptoniteKrunch No one's arguing about people literally not being able to play or enjoy VR due to genuine health conditions or stuff like that. I'm arguing against basically ignorant claims that is a fad or stop-gap or certain people genuinely asserting they never be interested in it (which is basically implying there's something inherently crap about)--that's just junk based on little more than ignorance.
@Unblowupable5 And I''m just saying that if he's into games at all, which he almost certainly is by virtue of being in here and commenting, then he ultimately will be (and not in the distant future either). So, I'm simply arguing against his assertion that he will NEVER be interested in VR--because such an assertion is born of basically pure ignorance and is good for nothing. And, I know how utterly amazing VR is--and it will only get better and better--so I don't want to encourage that kind of mindset in comments sections like this where it's easy for sheep to start spreading the same junk thinking based on nothing but pure ignorance too. I'm just stopping that particular ball before it gets rolling--or doing my best to at least.
@Richnj What you people consider 3D is not really 3D though. It's just extra depth on a 2D image. VR is full 3D just how our eyes see the world. 3D is extremely limiting because it really doesn't change anything, but VR does change everything.
Also there is no next thing after VR; this is the pinnacle. Whatever tries to come next if anything does can just be simulated in VR, such as lightfield TVs.
I feel like this comment section is like a 1 vs 100 but the 1 started the fight. What happened in here? Everybody...game however you like!
@Ryu_Niiyama Look back right at the start, maybe the third comment down or thereabouts:
In an article that absolutely isn't about real VR (because the headset in this article basically isn't VR in the slightest), someone feels the need to blurt out how they have no desire to ever buy a VR headset, like there's something inherently crap about VR or whatever. And their comment is clearly born of pure and utter ignorance of VR and little more.
So, they decided to call out VR in a negative as way (as "subtle" as it was and as much as you might have missed it), basically dismissing it in all its current and future forms outright--that ball has now started rolling, and we all know how sheepish people can be online--and I'm here to put as much of a stop to that garbage as possible right here and now.
Fair is fair.
Simple really.
@Mountain_Man People are opposing you because you actually want VR to die off. In your own words you said that you wish for it to die. Which comes off as extremely narrow-minded and ignorant. This is like me wanting smartphones or PCs to die off because I can't see their use.
You're effectively denying a technology to exist that can improve and save so many lives which is borderline despicable.
I've already counteracted every statement you've made about why you say it will without question be a niche. Please do tell me about these other promising technologies that should exist while VR should die. I'd love to hear about what else has more promise than VR.
You really have a lot to learn grasshopper.
@Richnj Like I said before, it does not have to replace anything. It's a totally new experience.
The difference with 3D tv's is that 3D tv's did not really add to the gameplay. You just saw depth.
With VR it totally changes the way you play. You don't control the camera with a thumbstick, you ARE the camera and look around. There is no disconnect. Motion controls aren't vaguely mapped to something on screen, you actually see your hands moving in 3D and where you expect them to be and actually have the idea you can grab stuff.
Flying around on a 3D tv does not have the same effect as actually being able to look around you. Same for first person games. Horror games actually become scary when you have a feeling of presence.
@impurekind It's not just one single platform/device though. It's layered on top of another platform/device.
It's like I said, like light guns, an extra cost, VR being an expensive extra cost, on top of an already expensive cost, to play a smaller array of games. At which point do you think the consumers will break and just stop buying all the extra crap?
@DartBuzzer Again, how the tech interacts with the experience is only half my concern over the tech. The extra cost and support is needed for the tech to stay relevant in the home market. I@m very much expecting the extra costs to eventually break both the consumer and the developer which will push them all away from the tech.
@Richnj Except it is just one device, and the price is constantly coming down too:
https://youtu.be/xwW-1mbemGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RedWf1sID0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VnQjrZk3rU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrUYl62d2IM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VChOt72Pqg8
Again, you're trapped in a world of ignorance and short-term thinking.
Many current VR headsets are indeed peripherals to other devices, but that's just the first gen. We're pretty much just about to step into gen 2 where your understanding of VR is all outdated and/or wrong.
The fact you apparently can't project forward a tiny bit, and you spout out stuff that undermines VR as a result of this (especially its amazing potential going forward), is why I have to counterbalance you with the actual truth.
Because I actually do understand and know [firsthand] how amazing VR already is, and also how much better its going to get going forward too. VR is the next paradigm in gaming and entertainment. It is magical. And if there was ever anything for you to get excited about in gaming (much like you probably did with the Switch) then VR is it.
Honestly, basically everyone in here who is fanboying over Nintendo and a system like the Switch right now should ultimately be going gaga for VR and the future of VR too, not hating on it, and they basically all would indeed be singing VR's praises from the rooftops if they actually knew better.
@Richnj Standalone VR could fix this. Once you have 100 million people using a standalone VR headset, those 100 million people will start to 'get' VR and branch off into buying high-end headsets.
Best case scenario is a standalone headset that simply docks wirelessly to a console or PC.
AAA Developers will most likely be fine. Today they are getting complete funding from Sony / Oculus or are investing for the future and already calculated the risks.
This is the strangest comment section ever. Here is an excerpt from a song about the future of VR and all the R’s.
“She looks like the real thing
She tastes like the real thing
My fake plastic love
But I can't help the feeling
I could blow through the ceiling
If I just turn and run
And it wears me out
It wears me out
It wears me out
It wears me out”
@impurekind I would have much preferred you linked to the Oculus Quest website or an article about it, because that video was a whole minute of kids pretending to be Keanu Reeves, and no actual footage or information about the product.
What you are showing me is basically a new platform, that has to compete with 4 other platforms. 4 very well established platforms. You're asking people to buy a $400 console, to replace the $400 peripheral that was needed by their platform of choice. Or you're asking them to forgo their platform of choice, either by selling up or ditching it for the next gen, and use this stand alone VR headset instead.
You do realise what you are asking there?
@Richnj I replaced that video with a better one, and added a couple others in too. My bad on that.
Yes, VR is a new platform (it's an entirely new paradigm), and it will have to compete with all the current platforms (gaming and entertainment), and I have basically zero doubt it absolutely will in due time.
VR is just THAT compelling, THAT capable, THAT exciting, and indeed THAT magical--and pretty much everyone who doesn't get that now will get it soon enough.
VR IS the future of gaming and entertainment, regardless of what else sits alongside it.
@Richnj It's not about the price or platform, it's about seeing the possibilities and the progress.
Like if the PS5 has a wireless PSVR2 with more accurate hand tracking, while still keeping that affordable price tag.
And that would still only be the second generation. The third generation will be VR where you can't see the pixels anymore.
All this hunk of plastic is good for us damaging the perception of real VR. If you want to play Nintendo games in 3D, the New 3DS already does this excellently. I would absolutely love to see Nintendo do real VR, but the current model Switch wasn't designed with that in mind. It could happen with the next Switch provided the tablet is lighter and capable of a much higher resolution. It wouldn't hurt to have cameras on the back of the tablet as well, for inside out 6DoF tracking.
@BigKing That's a pretty big If though. I mean, IF it came with PSVR out of the box as standard, that would be great for VR, because all the devs would be making games for the tech, and all PS5 owners would have access to that tech and game library. But that's not where we are at, and that would mean Sony would have to up the price of the system to offset the cost of the tech, which would likely mean they won't do it because the tech isn't worth the price.
And what becomes of split screen and shared screen games?, what becomes of watching your buddy play, or sitting down next to your son and enjoying that experience together. Learning as you go. MS actually has a much smarter solution to that. And it's just to allow two pads to control the one character. A feature that is built right in to the firmware.and only requires two control pads to use.
The Switch as a console has the same philosophy. The console allows two players to play together with just one pad. Rather than trying to cut players off from the world to better immerse you in the game, they are trying to bring the gaming world out to those next to you.
The possibilities of VR don't matter if they can't jump over the hurdles of reality.
I will chime in and say this sounds awful but PSVR is great! Without a doubt a game changer that wows you immediately. I have absolutely loved the PSVR.
@impurekind you do realize this is the 3rd attempt and launching consumer VR experiences right? many people don’t like the experience because it basically means strapping a couple of screens to your face. then there’s the disconnect with movement in the simulation vs the real world. VR will take off one day, when omnidirectional treadmills don’t look stupid sitting in a living room and an entire setup doesn’t cost more than a beast gaming rig but today is not that day and this is not the rendition that will take off. plenty of fan boys have existed throughout the years praising how awesome it is yet still it hasn’t taken off. you call people ignorant for not understanding VR but it’s you who are ignorant for not understanding the market. if VR were taking off every AAA title released would support it. it’s a gimmick and it’s already dying off again. if you can’t see this then perhaps your being paid to promote it and are blinded by that fact.
@Richnj Well consider this hypothetical reality in a few years time:
A PS5/PSVR2 where the headset is the home console, where to play in "normal" console mode you simply "dock" it somehow just like you do with a Switch. And, whether it comes with new types of motion controllers or whatever, it could come with such a controller that it would feel perfectly natural to just sit on your couch looking at the normal TV and playing with the controller like normal if that's what you choose. But, when you do want the full VR experience you simply put on the headset and use the motion controllers to do that. it's basically a Switch but the VR would be there instead of the handheld part. And, to be clear, I'd expect it to be an all-in-one wireless VR headset too, so you could in fact also take it on the go with you similar to what you do with a Switch right now (and much like people will be doing with the Oculus Quest when that launches in spring 2019).
Do I think that will actually happen? Not likely. I think that's more for a generation or twos time. But just imagine if Sony was so bold: A PS5 that is in fact a PSVR2, which has both a VR mode (that you can play in the house or on the go) and a TV-out mode for playing while chilling back on your couch looking at your TV and using normal controls too.
Now that would genuinely excite me more than anything that's happening in gaming in literally generations.
And, if Nintendo were to be the company to realise that vision first. . . .
@tekknik It's really the second attempt and trying to make VR a thing (they tried it in the '90s and now they're trying it again), and it's really only the fist proper attempt at genuinely viable and affordable consumer VR (there's never really been a true and genuinely commercial VR headset prior to now).
And, like many other people in here, it's you who is ignorant. Your whole "disconnect" comment is a great example of how outdated your understanding of current VR is:
https://youtu.be/xwW-1mbemGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RedWf1sID0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VnQjrZk3rU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrUYl62d2IM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VChOt72Pqg8
And, just to be clear, while the Oculus Quest example in the links above still isn't the perfect VR solution, it's still leaps and bounds ahead of where most people realise VR is already at.
Stuff like the Pimax 8K also shows how fast some other areas of VR are progressing too, with it's 4K per eye resolution and near-200 degree field of view:
https://www.pimaxvr.com/en/8k/
And Michael Abrash has a bit to say on the near future of VR also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyE5qOB4gw
@Richnj Ofcourse we aren't there yet, it's the first generation. First generation consoles were way worse.
But it's already very good.
What about playing with a buddy? VR is actually a very social thing. It's really fun to have someone playing and have other people watching on the tv and giving the player tips. It also encourages you to pass the headset to other players because a lot of games aren't made for very long sessions.
Besides that, there are also games with asynchronous multiplayer, so where one player uses the PSVR and others use the tv. PSVR gave me the best couch multiplayer sessions of this generation. More so than my Switch, which I use more in handheld mode.
Even girls who don't like consoles(besides Mario Kart) loved VR.
@BigKing Yeah, if people don't think VR can be social then they clearly haven't played Rec Room:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=6kl9gqv9t_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1CjV9y08P4
And check this out for and example of social behavior in VR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3V0aw-ljEg
Amazed.
I purchased psvr on a bit of a whim and wasn't expecting anything close to it when I put it one. The one thing you really notice apart from depth is the sheer scale of everything. First time I walked in to a castle in Skyrim and looked up 😮. 2 of my friends came round the next day, tried just the psvr world shark diving Tec demo and went out and got one each. I don't use mine alot as I also like to see my surroundings and it gets a little warm around the brow but once all these problems have been eradicated people will really see what vr is capable of.
@Kidfunkadelic83 Exactly. Great example of a real VR experience. VR is not perfect yet but it is already magical, and boy oh boy is it going to utterly blow people's minds in a couple generations when we have 4K+ per eye resolution, around 200 degree field of view, 90Hz+ frame-rate, full 3D positional audio, fully wireless headsets and controllers with full 6 degrees of freedom tracking, and all at a reasonably affordable price. And, very realistically, we might even get a couple of headsets that achieve all of the above as soon as the next generation in a year or twos time.
@BigKing No, actually, since the two Prophets of the Holy VR keep stating their PREDICTIONS as FACTS, you DO indeed need to see the future.
So far VR is a footnote like many gimmicks before it, in my opinion. Once it truly becomes mainstream, then you can laugh at anyone who thought it wouldn't happen. Not that you should, since that's how total douchebags act.
I tried VR, I didn't like it, that's that. You won't change my mind no matter how many times you call me ignorant (even though I'm not, I just have a different opinion) or praise the Holy VR in the sky. I'm not a fan and I don't see it as the end all be all you picture it as. Wake me up when we get ALL the senses perfectly recreated and replacing the natural ones when using this technology.
Seriously, it feels like Mirak is behind VR in this comments section.
Cya
Raziel-chan
@Razzy Yeah, you probably watched a crappy low-res 3D video on a Gear VR or something, which would indeed put many people off VR as stuff like that is generally total crap, and it doesn't even come close to what VR is already capable of in/on a proper high-end consumer headset when playing an actual quality game made to properly take advantage of what VR brings to the table.
What exactly did you try?
I'd be willing to try VR, but this attempt clearly isn't for me. IMO the technology seems promising, but I feel that it needs to evolve more and become more affordable before it really makes more of an impact on a mainstream audience.
@impurekind Whatever they played, it wasn't Astro Bot, Lone Echo / Echo VR or something of that caliber. Only playing such games do you gain an actual understanding of VR, and even then it's only an understanding on the games side and not all the other uses for the tech.
If I bought a Switch for 1-2 Switch, Super Meat Boy, and Mario Tennis, is it then fair to say "Switch isn't fun and nothing will change my mind"?
You know what would change my mind? Actually bothering to play high quality games that the system is known for.
@Tyranexx This, as in the thing in the article, isn't VR! lol
@DartBuzzer Exactly. Most people who are [still] dismissing VR either haven't tried it at all or they tried something total crap, like the aforementioned 360 videos, and think that's all VR is. Just like if I played some low budget and crappy indie game on Switch and declared the system as garbage without ever experiencing something like Breath of the Wild and really seeing what it's truly capable of.
@impurekind but he wasn’t negative about VR he just said he wouldn’t buy a headset. It only spiraled because you kept trying to prove him wrong. VR isn’t for everyone and that is ok. Luigi made the initial comment because the article is talking about a VR esque headset. (Note the esque. I know this isn’t a real VR experience) However him not wanting VR isn’t a detraction. It just is something he stated he won’t purchase. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t do VR or 3D either... everyone enjoys games in their own way.
@Ryu_Niiyama He totally was. You just apparently lack the ability to read between the lines.
@hatch You are of course right: It's totally fine not to like VR.
However, I'm not having anyone come in and claim stuff that's basically untrue garbage about it while I'm here--and that's my right too.
So, if someone calls VR a fad, I'll debate them. If someone calls VR a gimmick, I'll debate them. If someone says something that basically translates into "VR is crap and not worth their time", I'll debate them. And so on. . . .
But people can still say and believe whatever they want. lol
@impurekind ah thank you for the education upon what someone else meant and what he stated clearly in his initial rebuttal. Carry on.
@Ryu_Niiyama If you actually think otherwise then you're as blind as some of the people in here.
@impurekind like I said carry on. Also you may want to tone down the insults.
@Ryu_Niiyama If you're going to imply that calling someone ignorant of something is an insult then you are ignorant of what the word ignorant means and how it is used in the English language.
Stating someone is ignorant of something is not calling them a hurtful name or swearing or being aggressive or trolling or anything like that; it is literally the dictionary word that describes someone who doesn't know about something, they are ignorant about it, and especially someone who talks about it like they have some kind of knowledge regarding a topic but ultimately have little clue of that which they speak:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ignorant
Same goes for reading between the lines: If you can't see there's often more to what people say than the exact words they say, and you can't tell when one or the other is happening, then you are ignorant of this particular thing and therefore lack the ability to read between the lines:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/read-between-the-lines
That is literally all I said or implied.
Or are you talking about something else when you accuse me of throwing around insults?
I am ignorant of where your accusations are specifically coming from, and I can't see anything in reading between the lines other than what appears to be a subtle threat by you which could now set the ball rolling on an attempt to maybe try and get the mods to see something sinister in my words when they are just statements of what is happening and going on in the thread.
Or am I missing something obvious here?
@impurekind oh my gosh please stop. I wasn’t even calling you out about you calling people ignorant even though you are missing the point luigi made. He personally has no interest in VR he expounded later that he finds that isolating which is his personal viewpoint. That isn’t ignorance just because you don’t feel that way about VR. People each perceive the world around them differently. Our senses start us off but how we process how that makes us feel is different. And he can only game based upon what he finds enjoyable. No amount of great games or powerful tech will change that.
Also no, your tone is seemingly condescending which is likely why half the thread has responded to you. You come off as combative. And calling me blind or saying I can’t read between the lines isn’t helping me view you as less combative. I don’t know if that is intentional but at this point I don’t care. So last time. You carry on with others about how you feel about VR. I’m going to go enjoy my Friday. I’m done with this conversation.
Have a nice day.
@Ryu_Niiyama I guess I read between the lines of your previous comment incorrectly then, because it came across like a subtle threat to maybe try and get me modded by indirectly manipulating the narrative of the conversation in such a way that the mods might pick up on it and see something more to it than there is, and that for simply using normal English to articulate what is actually happening in the thread. People are making ignorant comments and statements about VR, negative comments, both about how it is now and how it will be in the future, and I'm simply telling them those comments are not correct and largely based on ignorance of VR where I absolutely believe that to be the case.
It would be rather insidious and unfair to subtly threaten to maybe sway the conversation towards getting someone modded in such a way for such a thing imo, possibly as a means to try and stifle their views and opinions a little bit, but that's just me expressing my opinion and feelings on the matter.
Love the Toilet Paper in the background. A must have for this rad apparatus.
@impurekind At no point did I ever threaten you. Ok this is starting to sound like trolling. Ignore list you go.
@Ryu_Niiyama Yes, that would be a perfect solution.
If you don't like what I have to say then put me on your ignore list, as you are entirely free to do. At least that way I certainly won't feel subtly threatened for simply using words as they are supposed to be used by their very definitions in the English dictionary, and you will ultimately get what you want too. I think I get what I want out of that also if I'm not mistaken about how it works.
And, by the way, much like my very point to you about reading between the lines, I was reading between the lines of your own words in that prior example: "Also you may want to tone down the insults."
To me, despite me not trying to deliberately insult anyone, that actually came across as "Tone down what you are saying or I might just report you to the mods for insulting people", which feels subtly and insidiously threatening in the context of your general line of comments to me (especially considering calling someone ignorant in the context of the conversations I've been having in this thread is not insulting them but merely using the word to describe what I think is actually the case: They are literally ignorant of the thing they are speaking about), as opposed to "Here's some nice and friendly advice for you . . ."
Again, that's just my take on the way things have played out: Other people have suggested I try to use a more tactful approach, which is fair enough (although not my way), but the way you worded it, and just the way your comments unfolded, was the first time it felt threatening to me. And I actually tend to trust me instinct on stuff like this.
You might have picked up on how it's now changed the entire flow of the conversation to a more negative and oppressive vibe about what people can and cannot say online without fear of being ostracized and excluded from the conversation entirely, rather than it just being about people talking crap about VR and people calling them out for their crap, which is a shame.
Personally, I'm just going to get back to talking/arguing about VR after this post.
When you have a lot of time and little talent, you will invent something like this.
@impurekind Once again, I totally agree with your view of VR. It's an exciting time to be a tech/gaming fan. VR is not only the future of gaming, but education as well. It just offers experiences not possible otherwise. I'm very much excited for the release of the Oculus Quest. If the launch is handled right, it's set to potentially be to VR what the NES was for console gaming. If it cuts into Switch sales, that could be just enough of a push to get Nintendo to off its own mobile VR.
@HexagonSun Totally, yeah, not only is it going to be great for gaming and entertainment in general, but there's whole other areas where it's going to shake things up too, like education as you mentioned, and virtual tourism and science and medicine and so on.
And I really wish something would push Nintendo to get into VR properly.
@impurekind I recently read an article that speculated that Oculus Quest would mainly be competing with Switch for mobile gamer's money. That may not be so, but I'm hopeful as it could be just the thing to get Nintendo to offer VR. If the next Switch is VR ready, Nintendo could boast more features than Oculus as an all in one gaming device.
I bet this article's thumbnail of the NS Glasses on Alex will be somebody's profile picture soon.
@impurekind then plz explain why oculus stock is worth 1/10th what it was two years ago? what about himax? they’re also suffering and are one of the leading chipset manufacturers for VR headsets. use real market stats instead of youtube videos. also you think that the previous attempts weren’t real attempts? what makes this time different?
The biggest hurdle for VR to overcome, and one it may ultimately find insurmountable, is that humans are inherently resistant to being isolated from their surroundings. It tends to make most people feel very uncomfortable.
@LUIGITORNADO #31 is my favourite post by you ever.
@Ryu_Niiyama You did the right thing.
@impurekind: I'm well aware that this thing isn't true VR. I'm just saying that in general (disregarding this thing), VR has potential. The technology just needs some fine-tuning.
My take on VR. I am someone who loves to take the world around me in. I like to sit on a train and watch my surroundings change. I'm not one of those people who stares at their phone or tablet for the duration of their commute, I constantly look around. When I go to foreign countries I like to explore to the point I end up showing locals around. I know New York, London and Tokyo like the back of my hand. There is no way on earth I'm going to isolate myself from the real world as I enjoy it too much. With video games I like my little temporary escape, but VR for me is never going to happen. I appreciate human company far too much to do that.
Rez Infinite...Area X ....nuff said......
I don’t think every game in VR is magical, but there are some really great experiences to be had when the right game is made for it. Resident Evil 7 was so good and scary for me. Getting my hand chainsawed off? Wow! Unreal. But I think it works great in non-horror games as well with something like Moss or Astro Bot. It shows that something like Mario or Zelda could work really well in VR. I hope Nintendo considers implementing VR when they make a more powerful console than the Switch.
@tekknik So, one company's current stock value is now how we measure whether a product and indeed entirely new entertainment platform is worthy and determine if it will be around in a few years time or if it's just a gimmicky fad that will quickly die out or whatever?
Yeah, that doesn't seem ignorant or short-sighted at all.
If we all followed what the stock market indicated then Nintendo would have shut up shop when the Wii U was totally and utterly flopping and its shares were at the lowest they'd been in many years:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-nintendo/nintendo-product-flop-crushes-shares-outlook-crumbles-idUKTRE76S09T20110729
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-06-08-nintendo-shares-fall-after-wii-u-revealfall
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/126214/Nintendo_Shares_Fall_To_Lowest_In_Six_Years_After_3DS_Price_Cut.php
https://www.shacknews.com/article/106012/nintendo-shares-will-hit-zero-by-october-if-stocks-sell-off-continues-at-junes-pace
http://uk.businessinsider.com/nintendo-stock-price-wall-street-biggest-bull-reiterates-buy-2018-6?r=US&IR=T
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-04/nintendo-s-dramatic-drop-leaves-investors-scrambling-for-reasons
https://wccftech.com/nintendo-shares-plummeted-and-no-one-can-figure-out-why/
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nintendo-shares-fall-super-mario-run
Would you like me to keep posting more links that would convince the ignorant Nintendo was basically "doomed" if they only looked at the current stock price and listened to the investors and media?
In fact, if we all followed what the stock market said then no one would have made any video game consoles at all after the utter crash of Atari and the core video game market back in the '80s. Yet Nintendo did make a new console, and Nintendo looked into the future and predicted where it thought video games would go rather than what the market might have been indicating. And Nintendo is still selling new consoles now, and look at where the Switch is now only a few years after the total flop that was the Wii U.
So, come talk to me about Oculus and indeed VR in general in say 5 years, or 10 years, or even 20 and 30 years time. . . .
And, regarding the previous attempt, the tech simply was not ready to offer true VR at a consumer level and at an affordable price back then--it was a truly exciting idea that was way ahead of its actual time and companies tried to sell half-*ssed versions of "VR" to consumers before it was really ready as a product--so the tech was never even given a proper chance, and rightly so, because back then it was basically a throwaway gimmick or extremely clunky and disappointing in all of the consumer versions of "VR", like the Virtual Boy for example. No VR headsets lasted more than a year or two back then as a direct result of all these issues--even the far more advanced VR arcades weren't very good at the time--and everyone quickly gave up on it when they realised the tech simply was not ready to do what it needed to do to ever truly win over consumers, especially core gamers, and sell enough units to make it a properly viable business.
Everything I just mentioned about VR in the past is the exact opposite now.
@BensonUii No, he can't.
VR is garbage.
It always has been - it always will be.
Hot Garbage.
@WiltonRoots Can you stop saying "Never going to happen" as if you're an expert on VR? It will happen, because VR can merge real life into the experience. There is nothing isolating about a VR headset that does this.
Also even now you can visit real world places. If you love real life so much (which many people don't) then you'd probably be happy to visit all sorts of places that even a veteran traveler would not be able to go to.
@vitalemrecords You've never used VR. Honestly the fact that the gaming community has to put up with people like you is a real pain.
@Mountain_Man As I've already explained to you, isolation can be fixed. How many more times are you going to push a false narrative because you want VR to die? Seriously, grow up.
@DartBuzzer I have used VR
so go back to eating paste, boy
@vitalemrecords The voice of ignorance--or a troll.
@vitalemrecords What did you play in VR?
@impurekind I use VR professionally on a regular base and tried a few experiences in gaming and I can uterlly say that the current state of it is a Joke (in the same level of 3d movies) and it just amounts for a sub par experience in comparison with normal gameplay.
VR may be a good experience in 10/20 years but I doubt it as AR makes way more sense as you get the best of both worlds (immersion without loosing sense of your surroundings)
@WiltonRoots ignore list is the best thing ever. Keeps my inbox cleaner than a spam filter. I love discussion when it is actually a discussion. Rants and insults? I don’t have time for that from some rando on the internet. Although I suppose I miss out on more comment bingo now. Oh well, a price to pay for peace.
@Ryu_Niiyama yah - the ignore list is probably why there are two blank spots after I last commented.
I wonder who that might be - and what wonderful things they might have to say!!
VR is essentially a very old technology that has been adapted and updated for computing hardware. The promise of it and the reality are so far apart that is years away from being mainstream.
"Mainstream" implies an adaptation by the majority of the target market demographics. In order for this to be successful financially for most companies that means casual and non technically inclined users. The current implementation of VR is impressive compared to what it was but the technology has a serious problem. A majority of people will not be comfortable wearing a head mounted display in order to experience it on a regular or occasional use. It just runs contrary to ease of use which is the usually the number one criteria for product usage.
If this technology was so captivating then the Stereoscope would not have died off in the early 19th century. In addition the Viewmaster, a more advanced and much easier to use application of 3D, would have lasted longer than it did as well.
VR, in order to be accepted has to become truly immersive, and has to exist in the form of holographic application in where the user is not physically aware of limitations and can interact with the objects in a natural way.
This current version of VR will die off just like the others.
@impurekind yes we do measure the state of the industry by the success or failure of one of the largest player in that industry. If they are doing well, getting investors and selling units their stock price would be higher, but it’s currently sitting st $0.07/share and can’t even be listed on NASDAQ because it’s worth so little. Nintendo didn’t reduce its value to a 1/10th of what it was during the wii u era but even still the wii u was considered a failure and that’s why their stock price dropped. much like oculus
@Zidentia What a load of nonsense. The stereoscope died off for other reasons because it was completely different and unrelated to VR.
Did you know that analog computers died off or at least become extremely niche? And yet here we are, all using computers every waking minute of our lives.
Using your logic, people would never wear a hat that gives them superpowers and the ability to warp reality. All because it's something they have to wear.
No, that's not how it works. People want value. If they have value then they are more willing to put up with an inconvenience.
As VR progresses, it offers exponentially more value to the average person.
Anyone thinking that VR cannot take off until it's just a holodeck without any wearables is absolutely delusional. It's about as ridiculous as the old IBM saying: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
@vitalemrecords You're seriously giving Nintendo fans a bad rep you know. Everyone can confirm you have not used VR, so don't even pretend to claim otherwise.
@DartBuzzer (Cries because someone has a different opinion; tells the other person to "grow up")
Right.
Trying to downplay human nature's inherent resistance to isolation is not going to make the problem go away.
@Mountain_Man Take a look at yourself. You're the one saying VR should die. Anyone wanting a useful technology like VR to die might as well be saying "Lets hope medical technology dies off too because anything that helps humanity should die off."
I get it. You don't want anyone to have fun unless it's on your terms with something you specifically want. This is the epitome of being self-centered.
And it's not about downplaying resistance to isolation. There is no long term problem here. You're projecting your own false beliefs as usual.
@DartBuzzer I never said VR should die. I said it will never reach mainstream success as an entertainment product because of certain insurmountable limitations. It's the same reason 3D television never caught on: people don't like to wear something on their faces that makes it difficult to interact with the outside world.
Came to read comments, stayed to update my Ignore list
@Mountain_Man "I can't wait until people get over the VR gimmick and kick it to the curb like they did with 3D movie theaters and televisions. There are so many other promising technologies we could be exploring."
As implied above, you can't wait for it to die. Now you're just backtracking.
And you seem saying these are insurmountable limitations despite me already telling you the solution. You also failed to list any other promising technologies despite me challenging you to do so. Not making much of a case here are you?
This is Tech Demo like prototype SWITCH VR HEADSET. Will wait next final Model.
I was hoping for a good 3D effect. Now I think I'm going to settle for one of those "wireless" headsets with HDMI input. Easiest way to create low grade VR would be: Switch (obviously) + HDMI-in headset + three joycons (a L+R pair for character control and the third goes on top of the headset for head tracking). After that, we simply need to get developers to add in a "third-joycon" mode to games that make sense to have it.
@ilikeike Tried that with a Nintendo DS....
@DartBuzzer silence troll scum
@DartBuzzer Mate it's my take on things. For me personally, it's never going to happen. Your stance is your stance but it won't change the way I feel about it. Hence why at the start of my post I said this is MY take on this. I just can't shut myself off from the world like that. I appreciate human contact far too much.
@HobbitGamer good man!
@WiltonRoots Your stance is from lack of knowledge though. Isolation is getting better over time because AR and VR will continue to blend until they are completely merged.
You can feel about it however you want, but why act so defensive about it ("It's never going to happen") when that is nothing but an assumption without knowledge on the subject. If there was no solution in the works then you can certainly say that without criticism, but there IS a solution.
To ignore all the facts out there that prove it's possible to fix, I just have to ask why? Maybe I can answer that. Because it's likely because you're just not interested enough in the subject to do your research.
That's just not healthy thinking. It's too self-absorbed.
@Balta666 Dude, you are either lying out your *** or you are so beyond clueless regarding VR that it's actually shocking. To even make such a claim is beyond ridiculous. There's stuff happening in VR and experiences to be had that simply cannot be touched on any modern console. You are literally just talking bull. First, you can use a normal controller with it for many games (and all retro games if you like), so where/how can it possibly be lacking in terms of controls? And you can also play with best-in-class motion controls too. Second, it can run games on high-end PCs at 4K resolution, 90fps and 200 degree field of view, so where/how exactly is it lacking in terms of visuals? And you have paradigm-shifting 1:1 scale worlds wrapped all around you in 360 degrees of stereoscopic 3D with full 3D positional audio too, which is far beyond anything you can do on modern consoles. Third, not only can you play entirely new games in VR but you can also play pretty much every single normal game ever made too--I was literally playing Eternal Darkness in full stereoscopic 3D on my Rift today--so how is it lacking in terms of the kinds of games and gameplay experiences as compared to consoles or PCs? Forth, you can watch 3D movies in it, do virtual tourism, surf the internet, partake in virtual education, join virtual social spaces, etc, so how exactly is it lacking in those ways compared to current consoles? VR can already do basically every single thing any other current entertainment platform and medium can do, with aplomb, and a lot more besides--and that is just an absolute objective fact. You have absolutely no clue at all about that which you speak. You are clearly a troll through and through, and almost certainly a total liar too. Or, you're just so ignorant about VR that I'm actually stunned--and you definitely should not be involved in VR professionally.
The sheer and utter ignorance of all the people outright dismissing VR in this thread, or claiming it a gimmick that will never catch on, or it will never have mainstream appeal, or it will shortly die, or whatever, is beyond laughable. You guys are so narrow and blinkered in your thinking and understanding of VR and the future of this new entertainment platform and paradigm that it's just comical at this point. I'm sure I'll forget to do so but please remind me to laugh very loudly at you in a few years time when you finally realise just how ignorant you are about something you express such a decisive and conclusive opinion on yet clearly know next to nothing about. Or, just let these words sink deeply into your subconscious and it will remind you for me when the time comes. You'll feel that little pang of shame at how truly ignorant some of your statements and assertions were in this thread--and rightly so. But, at least you'll be enjoying some amazing VR games when that time comes too, as will almost all of us, so all is and will be good in the end. I'll be more than happy to join you in celebrating just how amazing VR is together when that day comes, just as we all celebrate our love of Nintendo and its consoles and games now.
Right now though, as Pierce Brosnan put so perfectly in The Lawnmower Man, "This is the future, and you're afraid of it."
It's a shame you're afraid of something so genuinely amazing and magical (and it will just get even more amazing and magical as time goes on), but eventually you'll finally get the hype surrounding VR and grow to love it too--probably as soon as Nintendo gets on board I expect--of that I have no doubt.
And I'll smile with you when that times comes.
@impurekind Wow, you really need to just stop now, for someone who uses the word 'ignorant' 10,000 times you sure as hell seem to struggle to accept any opinion but your own, your superiority complex to every member on here is downright offensive.
@Toadie If people stop making completely ignorant assertions about VR then I'll stop calling them out for it. The word "ignorant" has a very clear definition in the dictionary, and there's a whole lot of posts that absolutely fit that definition in this thread. So don't blame me if the two fit together like and hand and a glove and I just happen to point that out as and when I see it. Until the ignorant stop claiming all these completely wrong and totally unwarranted negative things about VR, I'll keep making a point of calling a spade a spade, because VR is the most exciting and magical thing to happen in gaming in generations, arguably ever, and I wholeheartedly believe its earned the right to be accredited as such and defended against ignorant trolls if necessary.
@impurekind I'm blaming you for acting like your opinion is fact, you have no crystal ball, you have no greater chance of predicting VR's future than anyone else, and sure you're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is, and they're equally entitled to post theirs, whether you can bare to accept that or not.
What you're NOT entitled to do is condescend and belittle anyone who disagrees with you, just look back across your comments to see how aggressive you come across.
I'm happy for you that VR is so special to you, i am getting a PSVR for xmas and am hugely looking forward to it and hope i love it as much as you do but there will always be detractors of everything in life, you're just going to have to accept that VR is no different, i really think you're in danger of becoming banned if you carry on responding the way you are, there is a way of putting your point across dude, people would take your points on board more if they didn't feel they were being patronised at the same time.
@DartBuzzer Simple facts. I'm not even remotely interested in VR. You can't convince me so drop it. It's not happening. Take your hard sell somewhere else.
@WiltonRoots Right, so you're not interested in VR, yet you still think you're positively right and iron willed about your (false) belief.
I'm not selling anything. I'm merely pointing out the flaw in your thinking.
@Toadie He actually does have a greater chance at predicting the future of VR than most others here. If you have significant knowledge of VR, then you actually know where it can go. If you don't know what it can be used for, then your prediction is less likely to pan out because you'll assume a future based on incomplete information.
Case in point: People here not realizing that isolation can be fixed, not understanding VR's potential for communication, not realizing the power of 6DoF video.
Most people don't know what VR is still so they'll tend to have low opinions of it because they see it as just a gaming device. If I was in that position, I would probably not see it as a world-changing technology and would place my bets on it being niche. But I do know all of it's capabilities, therefore I have a better chance at predicting.
Notice all the "VR will fail like 3D TV" comments here or otherwise? It's only said by those who are in the above position; one of inexperience.
@DartBuzzer Take it elsewhere man. Find a VR forum where there's like minded people. I just don't care. Type another 100 words I won't even give them the time of day.
@Toadie When he melts down, he melts down big time. Enjoy it. I've seen it numerous times in here.
@DartBuzzer I see your point, and i totally get the potential but from a sales perspective and whether it truly catches on or not, i don't think it's easy to predict. The Wii U had lots of potential, it really could have benefited many gaming genres, but as we know, it didn't catch on so that potential sadly went to waste, i still would have loved to have seen the game-pad used for an RTS like Battalion Wars but it wasn't to be haha
Anyway, back on point, ultimately i don't think it even really matters whether VR becomes mainstream in the end, it will, and already has, been put to good use with games like Astro Bot being very creative with it, that will continue whether it takes off massively or not i feel. I just think @impurekind would be much better off being less hostile, the way to influence people to your way of seeing things is through trying to sell something positively, not being really aggressive, that's my point.
@WiltonRoots All this drama stemming from Alex strapping a plastic piece of tat to his face lol this site can be strange sometimes haha
@Toadie Right?! I love this site anod usually enjoy it's articles and comments but when it gets intense, it REALLY gets intense haha. You never know what triggers someone and to what point...
@Toadie I didn't even watch the vid. But yeah some people in here need to take a massive step back and look at the real world.
@WiltonRoots Yep haha maybe that's what the irish guy did ? he just seemed to vanish overnight lol or maybe he was banned ? xD
@Toadie Well, it is a fact that VR is here now and consumer ready for the first time and can offer absolutely compelling games and experiences, and it is selling in high enough numbers and supported by enough of the biggest and most influential companies in the world to sustain itself as the next gaming and entertainment platform that will absolutely continue with future generations of VR hardware and VR games (only pure ignorance makes some people think and claim otherwise at this point), and it's getting better rapidly and is being worked on by more and more companies and getting cheaper and cheaper . . . and it IS here to stay.
Again, I'm simply asserting that anyone who actually believes and/or asserts otherwise at this point is nothing more than ignorant (or a troll), which is, again, simply true, whether whomever gets that or not. But they WILL get it in say five years time, and certainly beyond that it will be beyond any real debate whatsoever. I just know it's ultimately beyond debate already, much like when the NES came along and console gaming has never looked back since, VR is now in the same position--this is basically generation 1 of an ever-increasing number of generations of VR--and it's only going up and onward from here on out.
I'm sure someone would have debated someone like me making a similar claim about 3D games being the future back the days of the PS1 and N64, when it became beyond clear to most informed people that 3D was a monumental paradigm shift and there was simply no going back from that point onward. But now it's very clear the 3D naysayers were wrong (and there were actually people like that)--which no one on this planet can seriously debate at this time--and that ultimately means they were therefore always wrong. They just didn't know it yet (at the time).
And if someone disagrees with my assertion about VR now being in a similar position to the very early days of 3D and ultimately on a similar path going forward from this point onward too then come back and prove me wrong in say five years time when VR is dead and the gimmicky fad has passed--which simply will not happen. Try the same thing in say ten years time, and then twenty, and thirty and forty and fifty . . . and the result will still be the same.
VR is here now and it's here to stay--and there actually isn't any real debate to be had about that at this point despite what some people think--and some people are just going to have to accept it and get used to it. And many people are indeed going to look like very short-sighted fools in a handful of years time.
My apologies if I seem like a **** for stating what is beyond obvious to me at this point, and for calling out the people that I see as being literally ignorant of what VR is, where it's at and where it's going in both the short-term and long-term future--and I'm mainly calling out the people who are acting like tools about VR but from the negative and dismissive point of view of the technology, which I am clearly opposed to--but it is what it is.
Don't shoot the messenger--I'm just speaking the truth.
PS. When exactly did everyone learn that it's simply impossible to predict the future? How limited we all are taught to be in our thinking and understanding of the rules of the Universe.
Let me give you a micro example of a 100% accurate future prediction: In a second or two I'm going to write the word "See".
See.
Now, I don't think anyone on Earth can predict the entire future of everything in the entire Universe with 100% accuracy, but I know for a fact it is possible to predict small parts of the future with not only a high level of accuracy but even 100% in many cases, as in the tiny joke-example I demonstrated above.
And, similarly--and this in a tiny little thing in the grand scheme of things when all is said and done--I'm stating matter of fact that VR is here now and will be here for the foreseeable future too, certainly as much as any other current form of entertainment is. And, even as good as it already is, of course it still needs to get better in many areas to truly deliver on its ultimate potential--that's just a given--but it continuing to get better in pretty much every area is also another little "magical" prediction of mine.
VR IS the next big thing in gaming, and indeed entertainment in general, and it has an amazingly bright future ahead of it.
That is just a statement of pure and utter fact as far as I'm concerned.
The main problem exklim has is that they're forcing games to look 3D on a display and games that don't support it. Until Nintendo themselves issue a software update to have a VR mode on the Switch (whether it's by actively shifting images around real-time for passive glasses to work or take the Cardboard approach of splitting the screen in two), any third-party claiming to have made VR work on the Switch on their own is just selling snake oil at this point, even if that's not their intentions.
For those who have watched Sword art Online, there is a concept in the fact that you can play the switch whilst laying down using joycons separately or even the pro controller. That to me not even being VR per say sounds very appealing. A lot of strain that comes from playing long hours could be extended by a comfortable headset that allows you to that way. By doing so, it also expands the versatility of how the switch can be played.
Remember guys,Jesus loves all of us.
@Toadie Nah he got banned. I don't think he knows what the outside world is or even understands the concept of human interaction. He got banned on another site recently, but they decided to let him post again for some stupid reason, he can only keep the nice act up for about a day or two before reverting back to being annoying as hell.
Saying that we've got someone here very similar who spams the hell out of comment sections.
@DartBuzzer I was talking in the context of entertainment products, you dope. In the context of entertainment, VR has very limited potential. Like most niche products, I think it will always be perceived as neat but not essential. In other words, it will never be a "every home has one" kind of success.
The problem is that you VR fanboys are acting like it's the cure for cancer, and that anybody who doesn't enthusiastically jump on the bandwagon has committed a crime against humanity
@DartBuzzer
Obviously you are blind if you do not see the same technology in Stereoscope glasses and VR. An analog computer is still a computer it just uses different principles to achieve its results. And guess what you do not wear it on your head!
VR as it exists is dying off and will be a niche at best. Get over it or are you still holding out for steam powered vehicles to take over the world?
VR is everywhere now
VR is currently a niche market, and will probably stay that way. Why? Because it's simply not a product that fits in the lifestyle of the masses right now.
History shows us that all technology that ends up having widespread adoption actually do so because they bring something that facilitates and simplify the lives of people. Either by answering a need, or making even more convenient an existing product. VR fill none of those blanks, at least as far as entertainment is concerned (it may be different in other fields).
Now to every VR fanboy out there, I'm not saying VR is bad, or no fun. It is indeed quite fun. But even so, I, and I'm sure many others, don't have the intent of buying into it. VR isn't something simple. It isn't something you can use everywhere. In fact, it is more like something you have to plan for, as VR usually implies cutting you out of the world around you, which isn't always an option for many people out there. For all those people, this isn't something that simplifies or facilitate their lives. In fact, it complicates things further. We all need entertainment, but we can't all sidestep our real responsibilities. Anyone with kids can attest to that.
For the general masses, VR isn't something that they feel would bring something worthwhile to their lives. And even if you think it does, it's a the cost of cutting you out from what happens around you. And any technology that comes as a compromise, that make people feel like they'll have to "set aside some time" to use it, is not something the masses will invest massively in. Many people playing games just want to sit on the sofa and relax when they have the time. They don't want to have to "plan" for it because they'll be unreachable doing it.
For instance, the Switch is a huge success, even with being not as powerful as the competition, because its hybrid home/portable console nature is clever and allow people to continue their games wherever they go.
Many people are also not buying movies on physical media anymore, even if those physical media offers superior image and sound compared to streaming. Why wouldn't people stay with those then? Because streaming is much more convenient to them. The same way people aren't jumping on the VR bandwagon because what they currently have to play games on is much more convenient to them and suits their lifestyles better.
A lot of VR adepts right now are acting exactly the same way as religious nuts trying to convert people to their beliefs. "Why don't you want to be saved"? - Not understanding why other people aren't thinking the same way...
VR will live on... but mostly as a niche market (and there's nothing wrong with that).
Well the comment section is freaking hilarious and almost as sad as this device.
@Zidentia You keep on parading these false beliefs of yours and pass them off as fact.
Stereoscopic glasses and VR also use different principles. The former is literally stereoscopic vision with real photons and nothing else; the latter is stereoscopic vision using artificial photons with tracking for your head in 6DoF and controllers in 6DoF. This makes all the difference in the world. I mean we already know that the difference between a mobile VR headset and a high-end VR headset is eons apart, so why wouldn't stereoscopic glasses be significantly more different?
This isn't even taking into account near-term advances like eye-tracking, facial-tracking, body-tracking, finger-tracking. I can tell you first hand that full body presence changes things completely both for yourself in your sense of presence and in social presence too. It has a fundamental biological effect on your brain that is science fact and cannot be denied, despite you doing so.
Please do not argue with science in the future. Turns out it doesn't work.
Also, I love how you say VR is dying off when nothing suggests this. Another made-up point to add to your already broken argument I suppose.
@Mountain_Man You never gave such context. You're now rebounding after I pointed your comment out as if it was meant to mean something else altogether. Maybe it was meant to originally, but you certainly didn't imply that until now.
In the context of entertainment, it is does not have limited appeal. This is once again your own personal feelings coming into play about a subject that can be quantified.
How about we sum it up? VR for entertainment can: Be used for gaming, used for social hangouts, used to simulate infinite screen space for entertainment purposes (looks like we've already surpassed game consoles in it's entertainment coverage), used for 360 degree videos, used for telepresence to teleport to remote events like concerts and sporting events, used for a practically limitless amounts of recreational activities like table tennis, dancing, DJing, sculpting, drawing, chess, darts, card games, D&D etc.
So it turns out that it would have the largest coverage of an entertainment device we've ever had so far because it can simulate all digital entertainment and over time simulate lots of non-digital entertainment and then you can add on all of it's unique offerings.
I have never acted like it's the cure for cancer. I'm merely correcting all the mistakes of the many pessimistic anti-VR people in this thread.
@Realnoize You're completely misunderstanding what VR actually is. You seem to think it's always going to a device that shuts you out, can't be used everywhere, and has to be planned for.
None of these are true long-term or even short-term. We're still in generation 1, so the pieces are still coming together. Gen 1 consoles played simplistic games and did nothing else. Now they have a slew of entertainment options and online connectivity. The pieces were fitted together with later generations.
Likewise, there are many parts of the VR puzzle still to be solved. The isolation issue is one that will be fixed because we're already seeing prototypes of headsets that can scan real life in real time and merge it with VR, and that's still just phase 1 of the isolation fix.
Oculus Quest can be used anywhere aside from the fact that it cannot at launch scan your environment, making it unsafe in many locations. But it's a generation 1 standalone device. Combine that with a solution above, or a later phase solution like glasses that go transparent or opaque on a whim and you have solved the issue permanently in every situation. You'd be able to use the device anywhere without issue and without isolation. Or you can choose to isolate yourself as it's merely choice; because humans crave escapism.
Again, once you have a device like this, there is no planning. Either you're already wearing it most of the day and just jump into applications on the fly, or you slip some glasses on from your pocket and do the same thing.
You seem to think as if VR will always be exactly the same now forever, as if it will never advance one bit further.
Ultimately, it's just limited thinking. Many people here are not creatively thinking, not thinking outside the box. They cannot see a solution to the many problems that are already being solved.
Just because your limited vision is unable to see something that actually exists does not mean it doesn't exist. Some of you people see through rose tinted glasses, a world that only conforms to your own domain of thinking; a bubble of trapped thoughts that doesn't reflect the many solutions found on the surface.
@DartBuzzer
I have forgotten more about technology than you can hope to know. I have used all types of VR and it is a great tool but the argument still is mass adoption by the marketplace which is not going to happen. There are far too many issues brought up in focus groups that clearly show the CTQ's are holding back current technology.
1) Weight of headset is too high
2) Uncomfortable
3) Loss of bearing in physical environment
4) Physical discomfort leading to a feeling of nausea.
There are more but these were the highest percentage picks.
It is great you are a fan of VR but the industry is littered with half baked and market orphaned products. I have purchased several myself but the market picks whether it is a superior technology regardless of personal conviction.
My suggestion is preach to your fellow zealots instead of trolling here.
@Zidentia What on earth do those problems even have to do with VR's F-U-T-U-R-E? Seriously, you're only reiterating the problems that exist today and saying VR will not become mainstream because of today's issues. Which is absurd.
1) This will be fixed in the future. Waveguides will allow sleek visors, and eventually we'll just have sunglasses that switch between AR/VR.
2) Will be fixed in the future with the above.
3) Already said this a dozen times. Merge AR with VR as well as scan real life into VR.
4) With the above three fixed as well as the vergence accommodation problem fixed with depth of focus support, you will not have discomfort unless the content is specifically tailored for the possibility of discomfort which is about developer choice.
Seriously ,your'e trying very very hard to make up a scenario where VR isn't mainstream, and none of it relies on logic. If it did, you'd bring up problems that can never be fixed, of which there are so few so it wouldn't really work in your favor anyway. (like all mature technologies - they all have a few problems that cannot be fixed)
@Zidentia
That's what I've been tring to explain to many. It's not about whether you think it's "the future" or not. It all come down, ultimately, to money and potential profits. And right now, VR is a huge money pit for hardware manufacturer and producers of AAA content. Numbers are actually showing a decline in VR hardware sale anywhere between 50 and 70% compared to the same period last year. And you can have the most incredible hardware out there, if too few people buy into it, it's not going to work out, and maybe you won't even consider all those "improvements" for a second generation.
And that's what most VR preachers aren't considering. A lot of products had planned "improvements" that would've fixed what people said they didn't like, but all R&D stopped because too much money was lost during "generation 1".
It's just annoying though, that whenever there are talks about VR nowadays, you have a bunch of zealots anwering EVERYONE on a forum that dares speak against what they think is "teh futurez". And also not understanding that the masses just don't care about VR. It's like "How can someone not want VR?" and every answer to that is, to them, a wrong answer. I mean, there's few things as insulting as someone actually telling you they know better than you what YOU want... or need.
Never thought of using the ignore function, but thanks to your post, I think I'll do the same as you with some others around here.
Pretty much sums it up when you have people on here ignoring others just because they can't handle the truth that they might actually be wrong after all.
@DartBuzzer
Oh, yeah, it's because they can't handle the "truth"... lol!
I'd prefer to think that the adults in the room are usually the ones knowing when to leave a conversation. Thing is, you canot debate with someone who's already convinced of something. These type of conversations kind of remind me of irrationnal console fanboys threads of old, full of 12-year old kids writting expletives in all caps to all and everyone who dared not think like they do. Or all these forums filled with conspiracy theorists or religious nuts that are all so convinced they have the truth and that everyone else is oh so wrong....
There's no conversation to be had with people that constantly cherry-pick their arguments to go with what they believe, and automatically dismiss anything that say the contrary. This is the same behavior as religious nuts, conspiracy theorists, climate change deniers, political sheep or any fanboy in general. People you can't just converse with in an adult manner without it turning into a contest of who can urinate farther.
That is why people are ignoring. Not because they can't handle the truth. But because they are full grown adults, know the "truth" is comprised of many sides, and aren't going to sit there listening to people who only see one, telling them what they should think.
I don't like to be preached to. And most sane people don't.
@Realnoize
Thanks for a rational and well reasoned response. While we fall on the same side of the argument I totally agree that one cannot have a debate if one side has a closed mind and an open mouth.
@Realnoize "There's no conversation to be had with people that constantly cherry-pick their arguments to go with what they believe, and automatically dismiss anything that say the contrary. "
I totally agree. It's just a shame that there is no shortage of this here. I can say I certainly haven't added to it at the very least.
@DartBuzzer Your "summary" of VR still doesn't address the one significant disadvantage: isolation. You can downplay it all you want, or claim that it will somehow be mitigated by some new breakthrough in the future, but that doesn't eliminate the existence of the problem itself. For example, if you attend a virtual concert, you will effectively be a ghost, cut off from the outside world and unable to interact with or share the experience with those around you.
As one reporter noted:
"Once you put on the headset, you're separated from the world around you. And sure, that heightened level of escapism is one of VR's great attributes. But if you're by yourself in the middle of Best Buy, putting on a helmet that blinds you to your surroundings may just be a bit more vulnerable than most people want to feel when they're out at the mall.
"Even at home, where one can fully appreciate VR's capacity for immersion while in the comfort and safety of your living room, it's still equally isolating — a far cry from family movie night or a games night with friends."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/vr-isolation-1.3980539
You can try and add some layer of interactivity to the experience, but it will always feel contrived and artificial. Are you familiar with the concept of the Uncanny Valley? Look it up if you don't know the term, but I think something similar applies to VR in the sense that the human mind can be extremely difficult to fool; in other words, it's a significant hurdle to make one forget that they're viewing the world (whether mixed reality or entirely artificial) through a set of high-tech spectacles.
Look, you can be as condescending and insulting as you want; you can insist that people just don't "get it"; that they don't "understand" the technology; but even your most passionate argument is not going to lead to mass adoption by the general public who don't relish the idea of needing to wear something on their faces in order to have an ultimately isolating entertainment experience. This is one of the reasons 3D televisions were a flop, and that technology was more accessible and less isolating than VR, yet the general public still rejected it.
That's the reality of the situation, and it's the reason why VR sales are trending down instead of up.
https://media.thinknum.com/articles/sales-data-shows-that-consumer-interest-in-vr-is-waning/
For you VR fanboys, don't despair. VR is probably not going to die out entirely. It's just most likely to become a very expensive niche product that will be a badge of honor among the "hardcore gamer" crowd but largely ignored by everybody else.
@Mountain_Man That concert example is a made up problem. Talk about cherrypicking. My TV doesn't cook food for me because I don't expect it to.
The whole point of visiting a concert virtually is if you can't go physically, which will be the case most of the time for most people since there are so many concerts and obviously most of them are not within driving distance as they are worldwide events.
So why insert a problem that doesn't need fixing? VR does what it does. It's not supposed to be a solution to curing cancer or in this case, teleporting your physical body. Nothing else can let you visit a concert even as a ghost. (which by the way can be a shared virtual experience) so there's no point in bringing VR down because it's not an actual teleportation pad.
It will not always feel artificial. There will come a time when we've surpassed the uncanny valley and virtual reality and real life are indistinguishable from each other at least in the most important details that you actually notice. I've already hopped into a light-field capture of real life in a VR headset and aside from the limited specs of the headset, the graphics displayed were exactly like real life, including perfect lighting.
A 360 video already looks completely real as if no graphics exist. Once you add the ability to move in that video and that video is broadcast live from a concert, and you add perfect 3D sound, it is completely indistinguishable from reality. The uncanny valley mostly exists for polygon graphics, not for light-fields or video captures which already looks lifelike.
Yes, 3D TVs flopped for several reasons, one being glasses. But the main reason why a glasses form factor failed was because there was very little value in putting on glasses for some extra depth cues. It changes little, whereas VR rewrites media from the ground-up. A change that fundamental has value with the right content.
By the way if you actually looked further, you'd notice most of the numbers in that link are pointless. Vive was out of stock, PSVR's dates were calculated after the holiday rush and only on one bundle, and phone VR was dropped from bundles as was always the plan.
You're moving the goalpast again and again. Look, you think it's going to be niche. Believe it. But 10 years from now, when it's really starting to ride the mainstream wave, you'll realize just how wrong you were.
And if you don't believe me about surpassing the uncanny valley, I do hope you won't deny the irrefutable proof in these:
https://youtu.be/a-JX3ZPi720?t=217 (Light field capture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFobWjSYst4&t=61s (A video you can move inside)
https://media.giphy.com/media/dh231p7ddVAdsUbmy2/giphy.gif (One is a VR avatar, one is real)
@impurekind mate don't be so much attached to it and learn to respect other opinion's. First to be clear when I say I use VR professionally I mean outside gaming and not that I work in VR (not clear from your rant if was that you understood).
Again what I am trying to say is that as on 3d movies for Me (and many others) the experience is not better by using 3d glasses/VR headset (Again to be clear I am not saying the two are the same thing but just that both do not encrease the experience).
That's all if you want to think I am a troll that's your own problem lol
@Balta666 Except, as per usual, you are wrong: VR movies are and can be an order of magnitude better than watching any 3D movie on any current medium, and certainly than any regular movie. Not only can it give you a giant virtual cinema screen inside your own private virtual cinema (or any environment you choose) to watch stereoscopic movies on, which already makes it better than watching a 2D/3D movie at a normal cinema in some ways, but it can go far beyond that by [in the future] actually allowing parts of the movies to spill out into the virtual cinema and affect everything around you: Imagine a horror movie where the killer actually steps out of the virtual screen into the virtual cinema at some point and goes around murdering some of the audience and then walks up behind you and whispers something creepy into your ear over your shoulder.
It's capable of basically this kind of thing at home, but taken to the next level when used creatively:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4UeOEjtRFw
And that's me just throwing out a pretty obvious example of how you can use VR in a way that absolutely changes and enhances the viewing experience as compared to watching a normal movie at home or on your phone/tablet or on the cinema or whatever.
Even just watching full 360 movies in VR now offers something that can enhance the experience beyond any traditional media when done right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEePFpC9qG8
And watching The Lion King in stereoscopic 3D inside my own private VR cinema was the best experience I've had with that movie to date, be that watching it at home or in the cinema or whatever, and that's even given all the current limitations of my headset, such as a relatively low resolution and God rays and low field of view. It's not perfect, but it adds enough to experience to already make it worthwhile, and a genuine alternative to watching it any other way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN4-3yYi-vo
Jurassic Park: Blue gave me another genuinely exciting glimpse into the future of 3D movies--if you haven't tried it then you should--and if someone like Spielberg actually bothered to make a brand new full Jurassic Park movie like that (once the tech can show it off in full HD+ glory and do it proper justice), it would be utterly stunning and absolutely as revolutionary as the original Jurassic Park was for its time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDEb7ENVO1o
Whether you and a bunch of other people don't currently enjoy watching movies in VR is ultimately irrelevant. That's akin to some random saying "Watching movies in the cinema just isn't good because I prefer to watch them on my phone when I'm on the bus." That doesn't objectively make watching movies in the cinema bad or unworthy because some people subjectively prefer to watch movies some other way (for now).
And even I agree that watching 3D movies in a normal cinema with those annoying 3D glasses often doesn't add enough to make it really any better than just enjoying the movie in 2D without having to wear the glasses, but VR is so far beyond that experience that when used right it can and absolutely will justify the small amount of hassle of having to put the VR headset on initially (which will become less of a hassle with each new generation of VR headsets). It already does in my subjective opinion, and this is only gen 1 where the tech still has many little niggles that detract from the experience, but by the time we get to the likes of gen 2, gen 3 and beyond, watching movies in VR will be on a whole other level from anything that has come before it.
But, like many people in here, you are clearly ignorant of what VR is and is truly capable of, and you lack the imagination to see its full and huge potential going forward too.
And, everything I just said above was about watching movies in VR only--that doesn't even touch on all the myriad of ways that VR is going to completely revolutionize gaming and entertainment as we know it across the board.
@DartBuzzer Here's a guy who actually gets it.
I wish some other people in here would open their eyes to the true potential of VR similarly. It is literally the greatest thing to happen to gaming and all of entertainment pretty much ever--VR IS the next major paradigm--and many of you guys are totally blind to it right now.
But soon enough . . .
@Mountain_Man Do you actually have any clue as to how many consoles there are out there in this generation?
It's less than 300 million total (or thereabouts). That's all the consoles, both home and handheld, sold around the entire world to date this generation. It's actually not that huge a number in the grand scheme of things.
And we certainly refer to consoles as being "mainstream" without any hassle, which will be true of VR too in the not distant future.
If you don't think VR is going to reach those kinds of numbers worldwide in any given VR generation once it hits its stride then you are indeed ignorant about what VR is, how and where it's going to be adopted, and its true potential.
I would not be surprised if even just in terms of how many people purchase a VR headset mainly for gaming that we'll see those kinds of numbers worldwide in a couple of generations. Basically, most people that go out and buy the likes of a Switch, PS4 and Xbox One now will almost certainly be lapping up VR headsets in the future, because pretty much everything that's appealing to them about those other systems right now is basically inherent to and indeed enhanced by VR.
But I know you can't quite grasp that--yet.
@DartBuzzer Trust me, your're not the first fanboy to downplay the shortcomings of his favorite technology, or have a ready excuse for why the data doesn't support his opinions. 3D TV also had its ardent defenders who were similarly condescending to the unwashed masses who didn't "get it". You can argue all you want that VR won't follow that same path, but the signs are there, and it's silly to ignore them.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/proof-vr-sales-numbers-sinking/
https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/superdata-vr-sales-report-1202878145/
https://econsultancy.com/why-are-vr-headset-sales-declining/
https://www.growngaming.com/feature/is-vr-still-the-future-of-gaming/
You're right that part of the decline can be attributed to vendors "unbundling" VR from their products, but think about it: If VR was a growing market, you would see the number of bundles increase, not decrease. Current trends are exactly the opposite of what you would expect if VR was poised for mainstream success.
Like I said, your most passionate arguments, delivered with all the arrogance you can muster, is not going to change the fact that the general public is simply not interested in the idea of isolating themselves behind virtual reality goggles.
And that's the bottom line.
@impurekind Gaming is quite definitely a niche hobby. 300 million units might sound like a lot, but many gamers own more than one system, so the actual number of consumers is less than what raw sales numbers might suggest. The fact is, a large segment of the population has no interest in gaming at all. VR will be a niche of a niche. Fact.
@impurekind you use the words lie and wrong to often to have a conversation so I let you with your PR. See you
@Mountain_Man At least provide some relevent links, please.
Link 1) Already debunked this. Look into the comment section there as well, as people have figured out it's very misleading.
Link 2) SuperData are notoriously off the mark by large margins. Did you know they thought Google had shipped 88 million cardboard headsets? That was their prediction, and yet Google shortly after announced 10 million, and that's far from their first blunder. They always over-estimate and do more damage than good. They are irrelevant in all things.
Link 3) This is just another article on the topic of the first link. Debunked.
Link 4) Again, this was all expected. The same trend has happened for all now mature technologies. Look up the gartner hype cycle.
So please tell me, what signs are there other than misleading data points and trends that are normal in the growing pains of any technology?
Also no, because phone VR was only meant to be an introduction. Notice how Samsung and Google and Oculus now have standalones either in the works or already released? Because they supersede mobile VR. You cannot push mobile VR much more because we're not going to see phone resolutions increase anymore, and VR needs custom display technology and optics that cannot happen in a phone form factor.
The general public is not interested today because well, it's early. Likewise the general public was not interested in smartphones or PCs in their own early days. Learn some history.
@Mountain_Man There are supposedly 2 billion gamers. It's mainstream, not niche. You seem to be overly pessimistic about everything. Or are you forgetting the entire PC gaming market and mobile gaming market?
Also you seem to pass off everything you say as fact. "I say X is so and so, therefore it's fact and written in stone"
@Mountain_Man Well, if we go by what MOST people who talk about gaming at all say (usually in terms of home consoles and handhelds), gaming is now mainstream. And VR will be as "mainstream" as current console gaming too soon enough--ACTUAL fact.
PS. Also, as @DartBuzzer said above, the actual number of people playing games is in the billions worldwide (be it on consoles or smartphones or whatever), https://techfruit.com/focus/number-gamers-worldwide-hits-2-2-billion/, so gaming really is mainstream now.
@DartBuzzer Again, this guy gets it. @Mountain_Man in comment #275 does not.
@Mountain_Man Here's a few better informed takes on VR and the like to counter your links in #275 (most of which were posted before Oculus revealed the Oculus Quest):
https://youtu.be/o7OpS7pZ5ok?t=4472 (watch from 1:14:32)
https://chopdawg.com/current-state-virtual-reality-vr/
https://www.vrfocus.com/2018/01/the-state-of-immersive-reality-in-2018/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2018/03/26/gdc-2018-getting-serious-about-virtual-reality/#25f6add1f543
These people are far better informed about VR than a bunch of stock market guys predicting the future who only care about and follow money and stats and little else, or a bunch of VR doomsayers who don't really know what the hell they're actually talking about for the most part.
@impurekind Indeed. Analysts, whether they are predicting positive or negative outcomes for VR, are absolutely worthless and to be ignored at all points. They are merely speculating and offer no objectivity.
Unfortunately the media always takes what anaylsts say as fact and try to spread the 'news' as much as possible.
Here's what Steve Jobs had to say the first time he saw the Xerox Alto computer back in the 1970s (this is where things like the mouse, graphical user interfaces (GUIs), the Ethernet, the first WYSIWYG word processor, the term "object oriented" programming and the like were all invented):
"And within . . . ten minutes it was obvious to me that all computers would work like this one day. It was obvious. You could argue about how many years it would take. You could argue about who the winners and losers might be. You couldn't argue about the inevitability, it was so obvious." - Steve Jobs
https://youtu.be/o7OpS7pZ5ok?t=4863 (watch from 1:21:03)
Now, naysayers, just imagine me--or someone you respect, if it helps--saying basically the same thing about VR. . . .
@DartBuzzer Michael Pachter, who many people in here should be aware of, being a great example of this.
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