Precision platforming – it’s something that pretty much comes as standard in Mario titles, these days. I’ve had my hands on Super Mario Odyssey, and it’s a delight – aesthetically as peachy as we’ve come to expect from Nintendo since the advent of HD visuals, but more pertinently it controls sharply and tightly, in all the right places.
Not once, navigating either the steel-and-glass environs of New Donk City or the Sand Kingdom’s Tostarena, did I ever feel that the game was anything but completely in tune with what I wanted it, or rather what I wanted Mario and his headgear ally Cappy, to do. But Super Mario Sunshine, wow. The GameCube platformer, Mario’s only main-series entry on Nintendo’s much-loved sixth-generation home system, is a title that I’ve long owned, sandwiched between copies of Zelda: The Wind Waker and F-Zero GX. But weirdly, perversely, I’ve never properly found time for it.
Until now, that is. 2017 marks Sunshine’s 15th anniversary – the game came out in its native Japan in July 2002, the States in August, and Europe in October – and with Odyssey a few weeks off (and spurred by it), I figured now would be an ideal time to dive into a supposed classic that, for whatever reason, I’d not indulged properly in before.
And, I kinda wish I’d left it alone. Which isn’t to say that that Sunshine – which I dipped the tiniest toe into, back when, but never went past its opening few moments – doesn’t still impress, in some respects. It might have a decade and a half of dust on it, but Sunshine’s visuals are bright and appealing, even when the textures don’t stand up to impressive character models (a remaster would work wonders, mind). The music, by Koji Kondo and Shinobu Tanaka, never disappoints, mixing familiar motifs with breezy new arrangements reflecting the game’s tropical setting.
Speaking of which, we’re on Isle Delfino here, rather than in the Mushroom Kingdom, on a Mario-and-pals vacation (Luigi, weirdly, didn’t get invited). Yes, poke around and there are the series-faithful pipes below the ground, numerous areas to uncover, and secrets hidden in plain sight – but it’s genuinely refreshing to explore areas that aren’t so incredibly synonymous with Mario history.
Like Odyssey, Sunshine unfolds in a non-linear manner – you needn’t play through all stages of the first “world” to begin making progress in the second, and each location is accessible via a town centre-like hub, Delfino Plaza. Spray the graffiti “M”s with your FLUDD gadget, and lo, the portals open. Find other “M”s around Delfino, and cleaning them up reveals blue coins, essential to your ultimate quest of gathering 120 Shine Sprites, little sun-shaped entities that power the island.
Sorry, skipping ahead of myself here, aren’t I? Your objective is to wipe all the ugly, polluting paint, gloop and grime from Delfino – and that’s something Mario is commanded to do, because the native Piantas think he’s the guy who made the mess in the first place. (Obviously, he didn’t – it’s Bowser Jr, making his series bow and disguised as a shadowy version of Mario, who’s behind the vandalism.) The Shine Sprites used to gather at the Plaza’s Shine Gate – but since the island became plastered in paint, they’ve scattered, and Mario’s got to round them up. Yup, it’s a collectathon! But since earlier Mario games effectively popularised this style of platformer, sure, we’ll allow it.
FLUDD? Now, there’s a thing – and it is, most certainly, A Thing. Within minutes of starting Sunshine, Mario is literally joined at the hip with a water-spraying device, apparently sentient if not totally autonomous, called FLUDD – aka the Flash Liquidizer Ultra Dousing Device. With FLUDD, Mario can wash away Bowser Jr’s paint, spray bosses into submission, switch the flow to hover in mid-air for a limited time, and eventually propel himself at great speeds both vertically and horizontally. FLUDD’s a neat contraption-cum-companion, and a nice piece of innovation on the part of Nintendo EAD’s designers, something unprecedented in the series. But that FLUDD never returned in a main Mario game, restricted to cameos in spin-offs, might be illustrative of a divisive reception.
What’s in no doubt, and what really prevents Sunshine from connecting as a contemporary gaming experience, is that this game’s controls are a mangled nightmare of axis confusion and analogue-stick wrangling, and the camera is one of the worst that I’ve ever experienced in a major, big-budget game. That exactness of Odyssey, refined as it was through the Galaxy games and the joyful 3D World, where you feel you could land Mario (or whoever) on a pinhead if asked to, is wholly and woefully absent here.
Instead, Sunshine fights you, putting whatever it can between the camera, the screen, and our hero – buildings, trees, submarines, cranes, pirate ships, navigation signs, bits of coral, moving platforms, giant watermelons – leaving the character a slippery silhouette and more likely than ever to fall down a deadly pit or suffer an enemy attack. You do what you can with the GameCube pad’s stumpy C Stick; but hours in, it simply never feels right. Perhaps this is why I put Sunshine down, back when, and never returned?
Reviewers in 2002 largely praised Sunshine, but some made a point of singling out its awful camera – and I’d like to think that Nintendo took that criticism on board, and learned from it, given the slickness of what followed in their 3D Mario series. Certainly, the late Satoru Iwata, the game’s executive producer, had speculated that its complicated controls would put people off; and producer Shigeru Miyamoto would comment after its release, "We should have designed the game differently, but we couldn’t."
Played today, with the benefit of having sat down with Galaxy and everything else, Sunshine persistently frustrates, and that becomes a real obstacle to enjoyment. Circling the main analogue stick to perform a spin jump gains Mario height but loses already hit-and-miss accuracy, and with the camera often exhibiting signs of having a madcap mind of its own, it’s too easy to end up right where you don’t want to be. Certain sections where the camera is fixed don’t suffer so badly – Blooper surfing, for example. But honestly, if Sunshine was a modern release, and it was this annoying to get through due to its perplexing perspectives, it’d surely be panned.
Evidently, 2002’s critics were more patient, or preferred to sing the praises of the game’s aforementioned positives, extending as they do to some wonderful stage design and variety. And when the game is flowing smoothly, it’s absolutely worthy of its Nintendo Seal of Quality. But then, too often: a bump, a slump, a life lost, all because of what we’re seeing. Or, more pertinently, what we’re not.
And if you, too, haven’t really seen Super Mario Sunshine before now, but are tempted to turn back time ahead of its hero’s next adventure, I personally recommend you leave it. Life’s too short for bad games; Sunshine may not be all bad, but in those moments where it’s really doing a number on you, trading clarity for chance – one word: pachinko – Mario's sole GameCube outing is, as much it pains me to say it, a very bad game.
Comments 210
I loved that Game & I always will. A 3DS Remake would be great.
@Robo-Knight It's too late for 3DS and it wouldn't look great. This game doesn't deserve the hate it gets.
You gave it a 9/10.
Still, for me it's far superior than Galaxy.
When I first saw the picture for this article I thought my dreams had come true it we were finally getting game cube virtual console on switch 😢
Edit on topic now that I've actually read the full article :
Sunshine is most definitely the black sheep of the main Mario series games but still a fine game none the less. Once I'd got used to the camera I thought it was fine and actually got used to it.
It did have a few frustrating levels but what game doesn't?
@Marxally We did - but this is a soapbox piece and is written in first person; it's someone's opinion, not the verdict of "the site". And Mike's points are 100 valid in my opinion; the controls in this game are rough.
If you don't like Sunshine for its camera and control, dear god, do NOT play 64.
I liked Mario Sunshine a lot more than Mario 64.
What'd I give to play an HD remake. I feel as though Nintendo will never do that, and I should just buy an old cube and CRTV.
Better than 3D Land and World! Largest moveset for Mario to date! A joy to play!
... unless you're 100% completing it. Getting all the blue coins without a guide wasn't appealing to me since the game doesn't list how many blue coins each level has (some being exclusive to particular episodes).
Camera can be a problem but just in few levels.
Other than that it's a great platformer and possibly the best of it's generation. Still want to play Psychonauts one of these days...
@Luffymcduck It's 100% better than 3D Land and World.
It wasn't as bad as you are trying to make it sound. The only parts I remember that the camera was awful for was the bonus, FLUDD-less areas where Mario was trying to play pachinko or run in weird 2D turned 3D levels.
Now if you want to talk awful camera/controls, look no further than Super Mario 64DS with it's weird touch screen analog stick.
Still holds up better today than Super Mario 64
This article is a load of §!"#. Sunshine is the very opposite of a bad game. I assume Mike Diver is just bad at playing it.
Personally I found the controls to be perfectly fine and the camera hardly got in my way. I can respect the fact that you found them to be difficult and criticize the game for that, but to say it's "a very bad game" and not worth anyone's time is a bit much when that's the only fault you mention about the game. I was hoping to see a few more points about why you disliked the game. I understand that it's a platformer and the camera plays a major role, but it's really not significantly worse than Galaxy.
Never got into this game. I'm currently going through "Games I missed" and it's Luigi's Mansion at the moment, once I'm done with that I think it's time me and Sunshine got acquainted.
I thought they game was great. Camera is bad but is better than 64. Great game, only problems were the blue coins
This game has a bad rap. I've played it many times over the years and enjoy how different it is to the other 3D SMB releases.
Would love a remaster
@Damo I understand. But I still thinki that Sunshine controls are way better than Galaxy. There's a pretty good video on YouTube about that. I don't like to move around the nunchuk to spin, and lose all the momentum. For me, Sunshine feels more fluid and fun, with more moves and variety. Basically a Mario 64, with the FLUDD and way better camera.
Yet the game plays like a dream in comparison to Mario 64, which really is a nightmare of terrible controls and an almost completely useless in-game camera.
I was happy with how Sunshine played when I first experienced it last year. It's not as polished as recent games, but for a platformer from that era, it still holds up really well.
I always felt like FLUDD made everything feel woefully imprecise, almost like it was there to give some wiggle room to the platforming. In turn, it felt pretty awful for me as a player, and like it was a matter of brute-forcing FLUDD to make jumps and get to places instead of doing them with accuracy myself. For me, FLUDD muddled the platforming entirely, and made it so when I couldn't get a jump to work, I had to wonder if I wasn't supposed to at all, or if there was some weird way I needed to use FLUDD to do it anyway. It didn't feel like experimentation, like BotW does with its myriad solutions to most problems; I was just always unsure, and the game felt just as unsure to me. I never liked it much at all, and agree with the points made here. That said, this one is a huge fan favorite and cult classic; this comment section is about to get interesting.....
Honestly, I don't notice the differences in control problems you guys do. SM64, Sunshine, SMG all seem to have the same control issues in my experience. It was only SM3D World that had good, accurate controls and a nice camera.
I'd chock up movement problems in all of the previous 3D mario installments as a result of the inferior shape they gave the analog sticks on te controllers. It always felt like you were fighting those stupid jagged ridges they made. I'm glad that every console after the Wii realized that jagged outlines for joysticks impede accurate movement, and instead opted for the superior smooth outline used now.
The music was great especially pinna park
Also... what's so bad about Pachinko machine? You can do some fun tricks in that stage too. If you just jump up there you'll have too much momentum to slow down with FLUDD. But you can also wall jump there.
I really hated when they dropped one of Mario's best moves, diving, and replaced it with shooting stardust in SMG (and don't get me wrong it's a phenomenal game but I really miss that move).
My favourite 3D Mario and since the announcement of no hub world in Odyssey, I'm starting to think Sunshine may remain my favourite 3D Mario.
HERETIC!
It's definitely not a bad game, but it is the only main Mario game I never finished. I'd be up for trying an updated HD remaster!
Sounds like a lot of you, especially the person who wrote the article, are just bad at the game. I never had any such problems with the controls, and it remains one of my favorite games of all time.
I'm sure it's not as polished as Odyssey, but I still never thought to myself that the controls sucked, and especially not to the point where I would call it a "very bad game".
Funny how back in the day I was missing the usual Mario level themes and found the tropical setting semi-boring. Later I started to get fed up with Mario's usual grass, desert, ocean, forest, snow, mountain, sky, lava-themes. At least Odyssey seems like it'll be a breath of fresh air.
Can't be remastered properly, no analog shoulder buttons because Nintendo logic.
Ugh, this game is one that would benefit more than the majority from a remaster. Why the heck did Nintendo ever abandon analogue triggers? I want my Gamecube remasters....
Wow mate.. are you high??
Give me a fully controllable camera any day!
In fact the only annoyance I have atm with mario and rabbids is the camera is too restrictive!
And don't even start to badmouth the controller that was bestowed to us from the gods!
Only Mario game I quit and never finished.
I agree. Some games age well. Visually and overall it's a great game with terrible controls once you played any 3D Mario that has come since.
It might be my least favorite 3D Mario, but that doesn't mean it's not better then most other platformers either.
I couldn't disagree more, I happen to think that Sunshine is an excellent game. In fact, it's my favourite of all the 3D Mario games, even more so than Galaxy/Galaxy 2. I replay the game to completion every summer. The worlds are big, gorgeous, and a joy to explore. And I find the controls to be fantastic, Mario's movements are so fluid but tight when they need to be; I love doing the side flips that lead into a wall jump as well as the spin jumps to clear out large areas of paint. The controls, to me, feel like Super Mario World's translated into 3D. Literally my only big criticism is that collecting all of the Blue Coins is rather frustrating if you're doing it blind. Other than that, excellent game. To each their own, I suppose.
And because of Nintendo's insistence on not giving the Switch analog shoulder buttons, this game is impossible to revisit on Virtual Console...
Another game that released around the same era was Sonic Heroes for Gamecube....and I looked at the reviews for that game and they criticised the camera + controls just like you did here. In fact, two levels were dedicated to "pachinko" in a way.
But I like it because it took some 2D Sonic design elements and adapted them to 3D. Sonic had speed and momentum, Tails was for precise flying, and Knuckles was for slower powerful, and light combat. There were plenty of bottomless pits and branching paths/shortcuts that took skill.
But alas, people complained because of the controls being a bit loose, and SEGA responded by making more linear and restrictive games. Unleashed was the last Sonic game to allow for free camera movement...
@Robo-Knight I was expecting a 3DS remake of Sunshine ever since the system was announced back in 2010. I think a ton of people on the internet were expecting it, too.
The GameBoy Color got a remake of Super Mario Bros. The GBA got remakes of Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island. And the DS got Super Mario 64 DS. It's weird to see Nintendo not remake Sunshine for the next system. Seriously, Sunshine would have looked beautiful in 3D and controlling FLUDD with gyro controls would have been great.
I guess an HD Sunshine with gyro controls via the Switch would also be great. We'll probably just see a no-thrills virtual console release though... oh, wait. Nintendo hasn't announced GameCube virtual console yet, let alone the virtual console itself. Fingers crossed!
I hated the heavy reliance on FLUDD.. Yoshi was also pointless and the game overall didn't feel finished.
Still a fantastic game, better than Mario 64 in my opinion. Camera never really bothered me when I played as a kid, and it still isn’t a huge deal, honestly. To call it a “very bad game” is almost hilarious, and somewhat sad. Super in depth game, great music and graphics for the system, and on a tropical island- one of the best 3D Mario games made.
@AlternateButtons You can't take Nintendo site writers to know much of any gaming outside of Nintendo.
Watching the video, brings back memories, and good ones. Also makes me think that FLUDD should be a weapon in Splatoon.
I just want an HD remake. Isle Delfina deserves a paint job! (Other than Bowser Jr's.)
Picked it up second hand last year, struggled to get into it for exactly the reasons given in the article and dropped it. Tried to give it a second chance this year, and hated it just as much, if not more. It's now the second game I've ever sold without finishing (the first being star fox zero). Would welcome a remake though cause it was mainly the camera and controls holding it back, especially the fludd mechanics which were way too clunky to feel useful
This is how I feel about 64 as well. Neither have held up all that well.
@blowback1976 That's a great idea. Plus, it would be so fitting if they gave it the Inkjet special.
The worst of the 3D Mario games, hands down.
This game divides audiences. People either love it or hate it.
@CreamyDream My 7 year old self could breeze through the levels more easily than most of the people critiquing this game ever could, lol.
The camera was finicky at times, but come on, this is a game that came out in 2002 for crying out loud. Cut it some slack. Everything about it holds up incredibly well.
@wiggleronacid The 3DS is weaker than a GameCube.
My opinion of the game definitely changed after almost 15 years removed. I played it last year after finding my copy amidst a bunch of packed up junk. I enjoyed it a heck of alot more so at 33 than I did at 20 for whatever reason. Maybe my appreciation for game design and Nintendo's willingness to completely do a 180 from one game to the next has grown since then. Much like when Wind Waker HD was released and I grew a new appreciation for that game as well after feeling blah about it back in 2002
This is a very bad article.
@BLP_Software "If you don't like Sunshine for its camera and control, dear god, do NOT play 64"
Or Sonic Adventure DX You are totally right, the camera and controls in Super Mario Sunshine were improved a lot over Super Mario 64. I think the smoother frame rate helped too.
Super Mario Sunshine has some flaws but it is still a great game.
The only issue in the gameplay was the swimming controls, that were unexplicably less fun and more frustrating than in other Mario games. Aside from that I never had problems either with controls or camera. The setting was less varied than in other games and it could be disappointing because of that, but aside from those two issues the game was great
This was my favorite Mario game of all time, I got completely hooked on this in 2002 and it made it difficult to complete one of my first indie games! I loved the water pack, especially using it to fly in a manner reminiscent of Pilotwings.
I watched others struggle with the camera but for me it was just part of the game's mechanics and I liked having full control over it very much more than Mario 64, which felt very limiting by comparison.
Great game! I would totally buy an HD remake.
Git gud.
If the camera controls are that bad, you're better off not playing any pre-2010 3D game with camera controls, forget any N64 game as well.
What nonsense is this article? Apart from the galaxy games, no 3D platformers released in the last 15 years are anywhere near as good as this game and 3D World went backwards in terms of control. I've never had any issues with the camera in this and the controls are superb. Why do many like to pretend modern games are so superior just because they are newer, graphics aside gaming hasn't evolved anything like as much as many like to claim on a regular basis. I would rather play Mario64 or Sunshine ahead of most 3D platformers since
@CreamyDream Some of the physics were really wonky, like that pachinko mini game, and the lava boat ride on to fight bowser. Other than that, I thought the physics were fun to play around with.
A very bad game my ***! I just played through it again, about two years ago, and it's still incredibly fun, for the most part! There are frustrating elements, moreso than in most Mario games, but it isn't a bad game! I love the vacation vibe of the game, and I've always thought that this was one Mario game that was most deserving of a direct sequel!
@Marxally That's right. Super Mario Galaxy controls are a nightmare and the camera is a pain in many occasions because it's always close-up and frequently automatic.
@BLP_Software I love the controls and camera in Mario 64 😃
@AlternateButtons Weird thing is that I was never a fan of the pachinko and lily pad levels. But in recent years I've ''learned'' how those levels work. Especially the pachinko level is not intuitive, but once you know how the game wants you to play those levels, they're not that bad. The only thing I dread these days is riding Yoshi over to that island. On my recent playthrough I beat both levels in a single go, and I'm fairly certain I could do it again. Still, that doesn't mean they're great levels, but there's actually some logic to them.
Mario 64 had its own list of problems, but people still treat it like it's a timeless work of art. I guess it's because Sunshine didn't do anything revolutionary.
i would like Nintendo to make an updated version of this game on the switch.
according to this article (so it seems), the controls are the worst thing about the game. Nintendo can easily fix that if they port the game to the Nintendo switch. but first Nintendo has other games to deal with on the Nintendo switch that we would like to see.
@Octane well said.
It's a great game.
Funny how you perceive yourselves. Thinking that Nintendo listened to "reviewers" that had criticism. As if you think gaming journalism dictates the gaming community thoughts and opinions. Nah, you just facilitate a community. That's good and noble and fun, but you're not that voice in the boardroom, guys.
Luckily, Nintendo just makes great games and creates fun stuff. Leave the whining to the pros, and the gaming to the fun people I guess.
Giant watermelon was hard at first but like many have said once you know the controls. It brilliant
Played this to death at launch many years ago and adored it. Haven't played in years since selling my GameCube (man, do I regret selling my old systems) but would love to again. Better yet: an expanded HD remake a la Windwaker HD that solves a few problems, like the camera, on Switch. A direct sequel would be pretty neat too.
@AlternateButtons I genuinely think that pipe at the end of the level was supposed to take you back to the beginning, but someone programmed it wrong and it takes you back to Delfino Plaza instead.
15 years ago I found it an enjoyable but ultimately inferior sequel to SM64. As per everyone else, I was frustrated by the Pachinko level and blue coins, and a little disappointed by the return of Yoshi as a fruitarian hydrophobe. I also didn't like Bowser Jr ("where are my Koopalings?"). But never the camera or controls. FLUDD was fun and the levels without him were suddenly terrifying. Great graphics, great sound, and the final boss was brilliant.
But I cleared it once and didn't go back for a decade, without a second thought. Finally replayed it in 2012 (between Galaxy 2 and New SMBU) and loved it way more than I expected. Amongst all the Mario games, it's got the most unique aesthetic identity.
And graphically it's aged 100% better than SM64, though that's still a better game as a whole, which I would gleefully play every day of my life if I didn't have a huge backlog of other games.
I'm actually in the process of playing Mario 64 for the first time, and boy is it tough. Not the game itself, but the controls and camera feel like they do nothing but fight against me. Haven't played Sunshine in a while, but I don't remember it been anywhere near as bad as this.
Another issue I have is that many of the missions are just boring and confusing.
I'm not going to read it. Sunshine is my perfect game and I still play it to this day.
@stevenw45 You'd better pay attention to the comments and not the article! They are just bad players.
I'm relieved to see that most people here acknowledge that the controls and camera are perfectly fine, the sound is cool, the settings are open and impressive and the mechanics are fun. For a 2002 3D game, that's quite an achievement.
There are some difficult -and optional- parts like beating all retro "bonus" levels and getting all the blue coins but even those don't feel unfair to me, just hardcore, thus getting 100% in this game is quite rewarding.
It's not a "perfect" game (what game is perfect, anyway?), there should be a way to track down the blue coins and swimming controls are a bit weird, but Super Mario Sunshine still is the best 3D Mario game to date for a good number of reasons.
I always liked the controls in Sunshine. I played it a few months ago and had no issues with it or the camera.
Love this game, Hope this is getting a Switch VC release
I don't believe for a second that it pains anyone on this site to call Sunshine a very bad game. It's a flat out lie.
@Luffymcduck Same here, back in the day the only thing that disappointed me was the idea of playing only summer settings but once you set foot on the theme park, the sunset beach and so on you realise how beautiful and coherent a Mario game can be without relying on grass-snow-volcano levels.
I have played enough platformers with bad cameras and controls in my time to just deal with it if the game itself is enjoyable.Never got to play this one unfortunately but would love it if it got ported to Switch
It was great and I enjoyed the controls but I didn't consider it to have the level of excellence the other 3D Marios had.
Too much of the content was filler. I calculated it and 55 of the Shine Sprites are gained through collecting coins(Red, Blue, 100 gold coins) and 15 of the missions are actually repeats of each other(e.g. chasing Shadow Mario 7 times, racing Il Piantissimo 3 times, fighting Gooper Blooper 3 times and doing the Blopper Surfing twice).
The way you progressed through the game was also very bizarre in my opinion. It was a sandbox but in order to beat the game unlike Super Mario 64 where you only needed to collect 70 Stars and you mostly pretty much had free reign to collect whichever stars you wanted. In Sunshine to get to the final boss and beat game you must beat the first 7 missions of all of the stages and to access later missions you have to beat the previous ones in order. I never understood why they choose to apply such a rigid structure of progression to a sandbox game.
It was a polished, pretty, but ultimately soulless game.
It's a good game taken on its own merits but stands out like a sore thumb among the general high quality of Mario games. Easily the worst 3D Mario game, even behind the 3DS game and the unambitious Wii U game. It was a shock back in 2002 to find Nintendo putting Mario in a game that got left behind by a 3D platformer another machine I.e. Jak and Daxter
I found problems with level design, game structure, controls and the woeful camera. On the other hand I loved the setting, the graphics are good for their age and the sound and music are great. It's one that itches to be remade, there could be a classic in there waiting to get out.
Uh, I still play the game occasionally, and it works fine for me. Sure the camera can get a little frustrating, but what adventure-platform doesn't it? Other than that, the game itself wasn't too bad...wasn't the best Mario title of all. I have to admit, Super Mario 64, even though it brought the 3D element to it, that one is the one that needs a lot of work done to it...the camera was absolutely horrible in it (anyone else get motion sickness when Mario enters the cannons and the camera can't even sit still for one second) and the graphics don't hold up. Gamecube still looks pretty good to this day, a little better than some of the Wii's graphics did...and the Gamecube looks really good if you play Wii games on the Wii U (Wii games look really horrible on that...the disc format versions, not downloads). Other than that, and back to my little point, my favorite mario title is still Super Mario Bros 3, but Sunshine was a pretty good title too! It deserves an HD remaster (not a sequel), but if that's the case, there's some other Mario adventures that could stand an upgrade too. But to complain about a game that's now 15 years old, is pretty sad...would be like playing the Atari and complaining about the graphics compared to this generation's systems!
@Octane
I really want to know if there's anyone in the world who thought that pipe was going to take you back to Delfino Plaza. The horror when i realized I had to take Yoshi all the way back to open the way for that river stage.
I'll make a mental note now to disregard any future judgement calls I see on this site from Mike Diver, since his is clearly terrible.
Also at the rate this article is getting new comments, I hope there's going to be a follow up article about how we took criticism for Super Mario Sunshine.
One of my favorite games of all time. Enjoyed it much more than the galaxy series. Does the fact that I played it the summer graduating from elementary school help its case? Probably
"Life’s too short for bad games."
I seriously never thought I'd see a Nintendo fan site say this about one of the best 3D Mario titles. Kind of surreal to read that, but that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I just vehemently disagree with classifying Mario Sunshine as a bad game.
Also, I find this article to be ill conceived; you shouldn't build up newer titles by revisiting old games and knocking them down. Mario has evolved but if you honestly think Sunshine is that bad, I question your credentials to ever review a 3D Mario title.
@Luffymcduck You can't know, that's the problem. Maybe QA wasn't as thorough back in the day and this was an oversight? I mean, it's always one of the last levels I play, it's optional, pretty hidden, and it's tedious to get to. If QA testers just played the game from start till end credits without 100%-ing the game, yeah, most are going to miss this level.
You can't even agree with yourself in this...review? You start off by saying the game isn't all bad and it even impresses in some regards, but then you end with calling it "a very bad game." It may not be the best game ever made, but it is certainly not bad.
You're playing a 15 year old game for the first time. Most of the early 3D games did not age terribly well. I would argue that Mario 64 aged way worse than Sunshine. Look at most of the
3D platformers from the PS2/GameCube era, and you will see the camera was the main problem back then. I mean, most PS1/N64 platformers are practically unplayable today. Sunshine, with all of it's flaws, is still a very well made and well polished game for it's time.
@ Fath3 "I'll make a mental note now to disregard any future judgement calls I see on this site from Mike Diver, since his is clearly terrible."
I'll do that also for the other people that have said that is the worst 3D Mario game. From now on their opinions are meaningless to me.
Not only is an brilliant game and an amazing achievement in 2002 but Super Mario Sunshine is full of unique moments: the flying ray, the rollercoaster ride against Bowser Jr., the giant watermelons, hovering over a huge abyss with FLUDD... In spite of its vacation theme, it also has some dark and interesting moments.
I had this game as a kid, but sold it. Recently, still having fond memories of it (despite never finishing it), I picked it up at a flea market, eager to try it out again.
I sold it again a week later.
I completely agree with everything you said about the controls. And it's frustrating, because I LOVE Sunshine's aesthetic, how different it is, and the idea behind the FLUDD mechanics. There's some sections that are genuinely completely fun to play. But the entire game is just brought down by slippery, imprecise controls.
Calling a game "very bad" because you couldn't get a grip on the controls? Sounds like a personal problem to me, lol.
Sunshine isn't without it's faults of course. But to this day I'd still give it maybe a 7.5 out of 10. It's a good game regardless of a few camera issues. And yes, I played this game recently to show to my wife and we both enjoyed it.
This game like so many of GC titles is an under appreciated work of art! I never had issues with the controls and even played it a few months ago.
Read Mike Diver's about Mike Diver bit under the story..."Mike writes about games. Sometimes he plays them. " Your option is invalid!
I never loved this game. To me Luigi got the better end of the Cube with Mansion. Brilliant game, if a bit too short.
The GameCube era was weird for me. I walked away from gaming for while, when I came back to play those games, I enjoyed more third party games than Nintendo's own. Games like Viewtiful Joe, Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Rogue Squadron, etc. were my favorite.
Not to say I didn't love that Double Dash and Wind Waker.
Weird. I played this last year and loved it. Yes the camera can be a bit annoying, but I've been playing lots of games on the N64 and GC recently and it's just a thing of the time it seems. All games had dodgy cameras back then.
My main gripe is that hardly any of the games back then let you invert the camera control away from the default, so I am always pressing it in the wrong direction. Wind Waker and Wario World are the same.
Isn't Mario Sunshine the first game to let the camera move into scenery and create a shadow of your character when scenery is in the way, so you can still see yourself? That's actually revolutionary, most games seem to do that now. I'm not sure if Sunshine was the first.
Mario 64 seriously annoys me now as the camera is full on physical and can't be moved through scenery, which just gets in the way of gameplay.
3D platformers have certainly evolved, but you could have said the same thing about Mario 64 when Sunshine released, as you can about Sunshine now. Does that make Mario 64 any less revolutionary? No. It just makes it a game of its time.
@BlueOcean
i figured that he is not the best player. (and i do not really care about his skill level. we play the games for fun, not to be the best) but i understand his pain. for example playing super Mario 64 is a lot better on the N64 than it is on the Wii or Wii U virtual console. i blame the controls and the controllers at least in that game.
however, i disagree, Super Mario Sunshine still is not the best 3D Mario game to date. from my experience in playing video games Super Mario 64 is the best 3D Mario game to date even though that i haven't played the game in almost a year. i blame the Nintendo Switch and its great library of games.
I say this as someone who recently played Sunshine for the first time and beat it, so no nostalgia blindness here:
The controls are smooth and Mario controls well. You are just very bad at video games.
A lot of the "problems" people encounter with this game is that they treat fludd like its a power up when its an integral part of Mario's moveset and the stages were built with its use in mind. Its not like 3d world were you can finish any level without any powerups. I 100% this game back when I was 13yrs (29 now) and if I went back and replayed it I would probably suck at it since platformers in general aren't made like that anymore and nobody has the time or patience to master those types of controls anymore.
Disagree. Certain aspects of Sunshine may not have aged that well, but it's difficult to make the case that it is an objectively bad game and not worth anyone's time. The camera can be a bit troublesome, but the controls, level design, and art design are fantastic. I would most definitely consider it a classic and put it up there with 64 and the Galaxy games.
I LOVE Sunshine! It's one of my favorite games of all time... I have even 100%ed it twice! The game isn't perfect and is definitely frustrating at times, but overall I still think it's a fantastic game. I would buy a remake of this day one for sure... I know this wouldn't happen, but adding the option to play as Luigi would be amazing! I would also love to see a sequel someday!
They need to do an HD remake and add joycon support to controll the water.
Won't hear a bad word about Sunshine. First game I had with my Gamecube for Christmas one year. Wanted Galaxy to advance the Mario lore and story, the way Sunshine did that for me has been unparalleled.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I don't see why its too late for the 3DS, it still has some solid life in it with projections of it being supported into 2019. Having said that, I really doubt it will come to the 3DS, but I certainly think they could do it. They managed to port a Wii game without any major issues (DK Country Returns) and even a Wii U title in Hyrule Warriors that obviously didn't look as pretty but still played overall the same.
Kinda silly to post a lenghty opinion piece for this game when you only now played it for the first time. Those points mentioned that may not have aged well didn't feel like this at the time. This was a true sequel to Mario 64 and better, technically, in many ways. It's like playing Mario 64 now for the first time and saying "urgh, I regret I wasted my time on this blocky and clumsy game, I rather play a modern proper platformer". Aparts, I can't fully agree on the controls, I thoroughly enjoyed running around Isla Delfino back in the day and bouncing off walls.
I thought Mario Sunshine was a great game, the graphics for there time were AWESOME but I can say it is not by far my favorite Mario 3D title that crown belongs to Super Mario Galaxy far and away my favorite Mario 3D title. The biggest problem I had with Sunshine was the lack of Luigi and by the end of the game I was really missing the Mushroom Kingdom ., LoL..
@dronesplitter Nintendolife has always been doing that once in so often. It's what led me to leave a few years back. I only came back for the Switch, but this occassional flaring over-opinion with a negative touch is common still apparently. Similar story: two weeks ago when the weekly chart for Japan had Switch sales dropped (very likely due to shortages) the article had a sensational title like Switch Sales fall dramatically in Japan...
I loved Sunshine. It still holds up for me today whenever I've gone back to it. I've never had these camera control issues or control control issues. I've never had any problems with the Pachinko level either.
I guess it depends on what era of gaming you grew up in.
Are you the same Mike Diver that wrote the Sonic Mania review, bashing the game because you are really painfully bad at video games?
(And I usually don't whinge about people being bad, I am really bad myself, but when someone needs to rage quit playing Sonic Mania and says that the bosses are really beautiful...well, then you're bad)
Wholeheartedly disagree, and don't really see the point of this article, other than to smear what is undoubtedly still overall a good game with just some wrinkles, because one person thinks it's objectively bad, which it's not.
Even if negativity does seem to sell well these days, you seem to be leaning too much on it, and for what it's worth, it may make some of us readers to look elsewhere for content.
Some really gimmicky, glitchy missions aside (pachinko and watermelon festival stand out), I think the game controls fine. I feel like the camera issues aren't anywhere nearl as bad as you say.
Now, here's my major problem with this game: I think trying to finish it with all the shines it's a major pain. This game has some things that just reek of filler. Some missions feel like were made at the last minute to fill the 120 shine quota (the one that sticks out the most to me is Scrubbing Sirena Beach, it's not even subtle) Each level has at least two red coin missions, counting the revisits to the FLUDD-less levels (Bianco Hill has a whopping four) and of course, some of the most transparent padding I have ever seen in a game; Blue Coins. Those things are just ridiculous. Seriously, you need all of them to get 24 shines, and they just...put them anywhere in the levels. So many of them you get by spraying some random corner of the levels with water, and that's just stupid. And a lot of them only appear in specific missions, by the way. Just walking around spraying water everywhere hoping to find them (and having to do it more than one time, because some of them are mission specific) isn't my idea of fun. It's just busywork.
Trying to finish this game completely is draining to me. It remains the only 3D Mario I never fully completed. However, there is still a lot of fun to be had with this game. A lot of the missions are a lot of fun, there is some really solid platforming with the FLUDD-less levels, it's just super fun jumping around the levels with the assistance of FLUDD, the levels are beautiful, the bosses are fun (except that eel in Noki Bay, that thing is just annoying)... yeah. This is one game that I personally feel that both the praise and backlash it gets are wildly exaggerated. I don't think that it is a underrated masterpiece, nor an crime against society. I look at it like I look at Skyward Sword: a game with a lot of padding, that feels kind of rushed, but still with a lot of good stuff in there.
@BLP_Software yeah, people get nostalgia glasses for 64 but bash sunshine over that matter.
and for this soapbox, calling sunshine (an old game) bad to reiterate how good odyssey is...
well... I don't even know what to say to that Ò_Ó
Up to this point Super Mario Sunshine is for me the greatest Mario game ever, I think odyssey can beat it but none of the Wii/WiiU Mario games lived to up to this predecessor
I don't particularly like the camera in 3D world although it's more the perspective no the camera
I was pretty disappointed with this game when it first came out. I wish the Fludd was only available in one world, not the entire game. Compared to Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy, this game is pretty bad. I may play it again if it gets re-released
I did not see any problem with the controls bak then...and the camera while horrible, was above the standard for the time I think.
But yeah, I agree with many...the game is just not that kind of AWESOME Mario experience. The small numbers of levels (7 full featured levels! less than half the number of regular levels seen in Mario 64), the repetitive nature of the tropical setting (good bye to Ice World, Sky World, Desert World, and even the chance for a regular lava world was wasted with Corona Mountain), average bosses and a horribly unrewarding final boss (Sure, most Mario final bosses are easy, but at least most try to put a facade of epicness), limited powerups (just two very situational fludd extra modes, and of course, Yoshis made of soap), and last but not least, the horrible padding from the blue coins and repetitive missions.
I see the Mario 3D evolution as a circle. Back when Sunshine was released, I believe the most praised moments wer the fludd less levels ("Mario back to the his roots" "Classic platform action" "Just get to the finish, no fluff"). I agreed, and because of that, I preferred both Galaxy games and even Mario 3D Land. We shall see if Oddisey truly is able to get the open 3D platformer style right, because while most seem to beg for it to come back, I don't miss it on the least.
A very bad game? Would not go that far myself, but for me, the game was vaguely disappointing.
That feeling probably stems from setting my expectations too high back then...it was the followup to the hugely influential Super Mario 64, and while this game had many memorable moments and cheerful music, it wasn't able to live up to that for me.
The camera really never bothered me (having a control stick to move it instead of buttons made it easier most of the time) but some elements of the game felt unfinished and in need of some more work and tweaking, such as the scene transition on the hotel level. In Super Mario 64, Mario would have been fully animated opening the door and walking in, and have been able to exit once inside. In Sunshine, you're just warped inside after talking to the Pianta and cannot leave unless you restart the level.
Had alot of fun with this game. Remember sweating my butt off playing this in summer 2003 in my girlfriends unairconditioned 2nd floor appartment bedroom. Whew...
I bought a lot of GC games for the Wii to play for the first time and never cared to try this one. Still don't.
It wasn't without its merits - & is certainly not a bad game - but it was critically flawed in a few key ways.
I'd welcome a remaster. If they could smooth out the camera, fix a few missions and offer something to make blue coin collecting easier then it'd be a much better game.
It would still rank behind most/all of the other 3D Mario games but it'd be easier to appreciate the many things it does well.
Can't say I ever enjoyed it much. I don't enjoy repeatedly going back to the same level just to do different objectives, or God forbid do nothing more than collect useless garbage in typical collectathon fashion. To each their own, but for me, 3D Land and 3D World are much more of what I like in terms of 3D Mario.
Played it to completion a few times back when it was released, something I can't say I've done for many Mario games. The first console Mario I played (I skipped the N64) so maybe I have fonder memories of it than I should. I'll make my own present day assessment of whether or not it is good or bad though.
@Lizuka I don't really think its fair to compare 3D Land or 3D World to the other 3D Mario titles. Because both 3D titles have different goals than the other 3D Mario games before them. While 64, Sunshine, and both Galaxy games are mission based trying to collect stars or shines, the 3D titles are just 3D versions of the gameplay of the classic 2D games: make it to the end of the level.
I still feel Mario 64 is the standard in which Mario games and 3D platformers are and should be measured in a great deal of areas. Certainly, the camera and aged visuals leave alot left to be desired. But control wise, I still think its top notch. The objectives are just so Mario in their charm and nature. I still love the castle overworld. Again, something so Mario in its charm. Like many on here, I play Mario 64 at least once a year and I never feel like its a chore (besides the camera issues. But I feel like once you have played it enough or if you played it back in the day, you know how to play around it). I'm with @samuelvictor. I would love a direct sequel to it. Heck, I would settle for a WW style remake that fixes a few things and gives it a visual update. Besides Super Mario World, its Mario at his finest IMO (and that's taking to account that the Galaxy games are also some fine pieces of video gaming).
It's a good game but definitely my least favorite 3D Mario.
I usually 100% Mario titles but this one I didn't even bother to finish. Rubbish. This is Mario fail.
Well played Nintendo Life--your bait made me click through and read this silliness.
Woah. I don't know what I'm missing, but my favorite thing about Sunshine was the absurd amount of precise control I felt I had over Mario at all times (not camera, mind you, it's problematic-- specifically control over Mario). Like you can turn on a dime, wall jumps are amazing precise... The Secrets in Sunshine always stood out as insane masterworks of precision 3D platforming to me.
What am I missing that you discovered? Or vice versa? I wouldn't say Sunshine is the best Mario, but it's FAR from the worst. Heck, I hate to say it since I love the beast, but having replayed both recently it's certainly aged better than Super Mario 64...
I can't escape the feeling that Nintendo's first party titles on the Cube were quite experimental, but all a little rushed, and they all ended up dividing opinion hugely for it. Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin 1 were too short, Wind Waker had dungeons cut and replaced with drawn out TriForce quests, Mario Sunshine had excessive Blue Coin padding. Double Dash had its unique dual-character/weapon gimmick that was dropped rapidly with the DS game's return to basics.
Yet Luigis Mansion 2, Pikmin 2&3, and Wind Waker HD were all greatly loved because they took time to address the issues people brought up. MK8DX resurrected double weapons. Sunshine HD with some added Blue Coin tracking system would probably be heralded as the second coming.
I really disagree... This game is proving to be timeless
Gamecube games tend to have this weird quirkiness that makes many my favorite games of the century (thus far). Nintendo made decisions that won't please the widest audience, but for those that like them, it's all "wow this is fantastic!" PMTTYD, Pikmin 2, and Super Mario Sunshine are all great examples.
@Xaldin agreed.
I get that this is a soapbox and he's just airing his dislike of the game...... but saying it's no good and not worth your time! Shut up man rubbish opinion no one listen to this guy. The camera has some quirks as most if not all games of that gen had but doesn't take away the fact that SMS is one of the best 3d platformers around.
I didn't think much of sunshine it wasn't very Mario to me
@UmbreonsPapa I would also like a Super Mario 64 sequel because that game feels like the genuine Mario with a lot of potential and the hub world was not only innovative but even feels great today. I would have preferred that instead of the NDKC in Super Mario Odyssey, honestly.
@gaga64 GameCube first-party games were not experimental but ambitious: Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, The Thousand-year Door... It's Nintendo at its best. Super Mario Sunshine in particular not only was very ambitious, thus it was delayed and Luigi's Mansion took its place, but also got almost everything right.
And Mario Kart Double Dash!! is the best Mario Kart game, at least as a racing game thanks to its wonderful controls and physics that make it feel like you are really racing although MK8 has more content and is prettier.
All in all, I found Sunshine to be quite fun! Yes it's got its flaws (especially the FLUDD-less platforming levels; those I felt were redundant and needless) but it wasn't as bad as this article's making out to be.
Best 3d mario game ever, your critic is shit, go play some hand holding 3d world or galaxy and leave this gem to us the experts at platforming
I am strongly reminded of this:
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/git-gud-on-games-journalists-and-being-good-at-video-games
To add my opinion to the mix, you don't need to be good at video games to be in games journalism...unless you plan on critiquing them.
I just wanted the ability to invert the C-stick. I could never get used to it rotating the way it did (I don't remember the details). If I could have inverted it, I'd have no complaints at all.
For someone who has never played this game and GC Paper Mario and others... hoping for a remake or GC VC to come out.. Please!
Telling people not to play the best traditional 3D Mario game is absurd. Sunshine for me is better than the Galaxy games and 64. Super Mario 3D World to me was arguably better but i feel that's more of an amalgamation of 2D and 3D Mario Games. In fact i'd love to see all 3 styles continue on.
@Zeargo Coincidentally, The Thousand-year Door is also the best Paper Mario game although the Nintendo 64 game is good too.
Conversely I hated the camera in galaxy and prefer 64 and sunshine.
@BlueOcean No Paper Mario has ever matched the glory of TTYD, especially not recent ones.
Skipped Sunshine back in the day, but tried to play it shortly after finishing Galaxy 2. Big mistake. Got bored after only getting a few Shines simply because my thirst for Power Stars was sated. I don't even remember whether it had camera issues! (Being a GameCube era game, I'd bet on it.) Haven't had the time to give it a fair go though, and Odyssey sure aint helping.
But, yeah. Was able to enjoy Mario 64 (yay freshness back then, and yay nostalgia later!), but Lakitu Cam and everything like it is a legit barrier to enjoyment. Camera should be submissive like MonHun or D Souls or BotW, not trying to wrestle control from the player like Mario and Zelda 64.
Galaxy? From what I remember, it felt like rather than develop a good camera, they designed levels around just having the camera plopped someplace where I wouldn't have any need to control it anyway. It worked for me back then, as I usually prefer having no control over bad control.
I love this game! I actually bought it again recently, along with a GameCube because I had missed it so much. Now there's a GameCube, Wii U, and Switch in my living room.
@KirbyTheVampire Yep. Also agree with your other comments about Super Mario Sunshine. Some of the complaints on the thread have some true in them like the blue coins and some people have properly elaborated their ideas but the "article" is pointless from start to end and I'm glad that most people realised. It's not an analytical retrospective but just plain rubbish.
Mike Divers is, as much it pains me to say it, a very bad game reviewer...
Fixed that for you.
Both this article and this comment section are so bad, especially the article, lol.
I never played Sunshine so I can't say anything about my opinion on it, but it looks more interesting than say 3D Land. That said, I have little interest in a remaster of it of any sorts. I'd buy it, but It's not really something I'd desire.
Who wrote this bull? Sunshine is one of the best Mario games ever. I replayed sunshine, got all 120 stars a couple of years ago and I can confirm it's an incredible game.
Super Mario Sunshine is a good game.
It also is a bad Mario game.
It's all about the standards set by previous outing, and to me Super Mario Galaxy will always be Super Mario 64's true successor.
See, I always thought the fludd was implemented in part due to the bad controls LOL.
I didn't too much care for Sunshine or Wind Waker. Twilight Princess and Galaxy were my jam.
I don't care how bad the camera is! I still really wanna play this game! Switch VC!
This is the last Mario game I really played outside of the 3D world series. It was fun but got kind of boring and I haven't picked up a Mario 64 like title since... This new one coming out sounds fun but I'm more interested in another 3d world entry.
@memoryman3
The 3DS is more powerful than the GameCube, go play Resident Evil Revelations on 3DS it looks like an early Xbox 360 title with real time lighting, shadow, and smoke effects. Don't forget the 3DS was even capable of playing Wii games like Donkey Kong County Returns & Zenoblade chronicles.
The gameplay is still unique and it's very enjoyable blasting things with water, it has aged well too. This game is probably why I love Splatoon so much.
To this day, my least favorite Mario game and one of my least favorite games in general, especially as a completionist.
Some level / mission designs are just ridiculously bad. Paired with its wonky physics which make Mario slide around like a wet piece of soap in a bathtub, its just pure frustration.
It takes an extremely high frustration tolerance to consider stuff like the pachinko stage, the sand bird, the Boo casino or several of the toybox levels to be "playable".
What it flat out nails though is the setting.
They went with the vacation island theme, stuck with it from start to finish and its just brilliant.
It introduced some lovable and memorable characters and had a great art design too.
But its just not a game i would want to play ever again if not changed from the ground up (A new, more solid physics engine would help immensely).
Super Mario Sunshine in my least favorite of the 3D Mario games. Sunshine is still a decent game in its own right, but from playing super Mario 64 then a couple years later to play Sunshine, well it was a huge disappointment to me during that time.
Wow. This is my favorite 3D Mario game, and one that I've kept playing over the years. Its controls are so much better than Mario 64, light years better than the DS version, and more intuitive than Galaxies. The camera absolutely frustrates in a few points, but they are not as common as all that. This is one of the highlights of the Gamecube in my opinion. I hope Odyssey will be half as fun!
Hey no hate on ya since this is a Soapbox and all but totally disagree with u here. I've played every 3D Mario game to 100% and one the most recent one was Sunshine a few years ago when Dios Míos came out. I found it to be a lot of fun and didn't have much problem with the controls I'd say it was leap years better than Mario 64 terms of controls and graphics and it was just a genuine joy to play from beginning to end minus the few frustrating moments which everyone of these platformers gives me. Look at the real last level in super Mario 3-D world beat it but it was pure hardcore hotness lol.
Why the crap is that fake image used so constantly? Just use something from the actual game!
So the author just sucks at this game and felt the need to drag it through the mud? Pathetic...
@memoryman3 "Power" isn't a directly scale-able term when it comes to computer/gaming hardware. For instance, the GBA was apparently less powerful than the SNES, yet it still got remasters of a ton of SNES titles. The 3DS has newer architecture than the GameCube. Plus, what it really comes down to is optimization. If Nintendo can get Donkey Kong Country Returns on the 3DS then I think they could get Sunshine on there as well.
It's your opinion and you have every right to it, but so do I and I'll be blunt... you're a Buffoon!
This place is becoming Nintendo today.com which use to be wii u daily(this isn't a compliment).
Comparing Sunshine to games released years after it is clearly not fair. Compare it to SM64, Rare's games, any 5th/early 6th gen platformer. In that context it certainly doesn't have the best camera and controls, but was by no means below average. Sunshine has always felt more personal to me than the subsequent outings, which were just level by level, which is fine, but Sunshine has so much more atmosphere, and that makes it special.
Sunshine might have its flaws, but I can listen to its soundtrack all day. Seriously, one of the best soundtracks in a Mario game.
It aged poorly even while compared to Super Mario 64. Still a fun game within its own merits.
It just needed a proper HD treatment if they ever decided to bring analog triggers back...
A very bad game obviously don't deserve 9/10. I believe that the writer is sincere. I got a Gamecube (RE4edition) but never played this. I would like to see a remake of Sunshine on the Switch only if they put some effort into it with 720p/1080p@60fps, and revamped camera and controls.
Dumb article. It's my least favourite of the '3D' core series Mario titles, but it is by absolutely no means a 'very bad game'. I also can't recall ever experiencing any particularly irritating issues with the camera, if you want to see a REALLY bad example, try either of the Sonic Adventures. They have awful camera functionality at times and neither game is as good as Sunshine, but even due to those flaws are still not 'very bad' games.
Review is terrible. Did the reviewer even try getting through the first few stages? Sunshine has a learning curve to the mechanics yes, but once you master them, it becomes the most unique Mario platformer to date. Most gorgeous visuals for it's generation too. And the the hottube scene at the end is priceless...
I just wanted more of the challenge levels where you weren't wearing FLOOD.
I disliked the twitchy controls, the wonky camera, some of the levels (the Hotel level can go do one), and the only theme I remember is the main Island one. Having said that, there were plenty of touches of brilliance in there too. I loved the void levels you had to complete sans FLUDD, some of the little graphical flourishes put a grin on my face, and I remember being distinctly impressed by those huge solar panels on one level. Not a bad game, just not a very good Mario game. Which is my opinion, that does not in any way render any differing opinions invalid, btw, before any cries of, "you obvs found it too hard," or, "pft you're totes wrong about it." So aye. Let's all Just Play Nice™
I only played Sunshine a little bit, I couldn't get into it myself. I don't think it was bad controls or anything, just odd to me I guess. Same with Galaxy 1 and 2, plus I always hated Wii controls. So I never got into a Mario again until 3DS, and then that wasn't quite 3D enough for me. I would probably give Sunshine a chance again though if they remastered/remake it.
@CapitanFalcon Why do you consider linear the same as Handholdy?.
@CreamyDream if I were to rank all the 3D platformers I've ever played, Mario64 and Sunshine would easily be in the top 3. I've never had any issue with the contols or the camera and in fact adore those aspects of these games. This author is a bit of an idiot for trying to say this is a bad game in any way. Seriously he should try playing any 3D platformers on a non Nintendo console for the last 20 years and see how good the controls and camera are on them
It was a way ambitious game that wasn't fully aware of its own limitation.
I enjoyed it a lot for a while, but grew tired of how convoluted some worlds were just to enter, and some shine challenges had the resemblance of puzzles leading up to just finding their starting point.
And don't get me started on the blue coins and transporting the durian.
I never got the last 25~30 shines in this, and it still sort of bugs me, but I can't muster the energy to replay it.
Similarly. I own it. Never played it.
Sunshine is still my favorite mainline Mario game. I invested so many hours into it, while the opposite is applied to Galaxy. I never played the sequel, but I didn't enjoy Galaxy at all.
I just feel the need to register when I saw this article:
I recently challenged my girlfriend to play the game (one of my favourites EVER), and her reaction after an hour was the same as the stated in this article.
She didn't get the mechanics and didn't have time to properly understand the controls, but she decided she didn't like the game.
I suspect the same happened to the autor
"Mario's sole GameCube outing is, as much it pains me to say it, a very bad game"
Ehhh, its a great game! Controls and graphics get improved all the time, so thats not a real reason to be down on the game. On the other hand you guys ALWAYS praise Mario64, and I find that game to be VERY frustrating! Everyone its own taste, I guess.
One little complaint about Mario Sunshine though: I think the analogue shoulder-buttons of the Gamecube-controller are a problem. Last time I played the hovering didn't go very smooth, and that must have been the fault of the shoulder-buttons. They always felt nice, but they seem to die over time thanks to the analogue nature.
If I see that trailer, I see Super Mario Odyssey on the Switch. Just that Mario now will have a magic hat, instead of a water canon.
So in a way we are getting a Super Mario Sunshine remake on the Switch
I would rather true 360 degree camera control like 64/Sunshine than the semi-fixed camera of Galaxy etc...
This is one of the few Mario titles I have missed and one of the main reasons I want GameCube support for the Switch VC.
Along with Mario Galaxy, I'd also love to see an HD remaster of the game too.
It would be really easy for them to just release a new revision of the joy-cons with analogue triggers. Voila! Problem solved. Then we could all enjoy the treasure trove of games that use them and rejoice.
I hated Sunshine with a passion. Aside from the camera, the whole thing was just one big gimmick. The FLUDD should have been a single level or two in a larger game, not something an entire game was built around.
@Jeronan
All we need now is a Delfino Plaza throwback level.
Good game, but fludd was a bummer. Got tired of cleaning up goo...
I loved the setting and music, but the camera and fiddly controls made Sunshine feel like hard work at times. I never got 100% because of it just wasn't as much fun as 64 or the Galaxy games.
Great to see someone agrees with me on this matter! It's so easy looking past how flawed gameplay was on many of those first 3D platformers through our rose-colored goggles. Having skipped two generations of Nintendo hardware (never had a N64 or GCN), I was utterly amazed by Mario Galaxy, but never got around to actually finish the previous 3D Mario games for all the reasons stated in this article.
Having said that, I think you might be setting people off by calling it a "bad game". It's certainly not, especially compared to whatever else was out when it got released. Its shortcomings might be glaring nowadays, but the same can be said about most retro games, I suppose.
Always thought Mario 64 aged a lot better, Sunshine has some different ideas that make it at least worth trying, but to me it seems like the only 3D Mario game made by Sonic Team...
Make this a poll, and see whether Super Mario Sunshine has more fans or foes...
And ask voters to play the game in whatever form before voting, since memories can be cloud our judgment...
I always enjoyed replaying this game over the years. Now I'm tempted to play it again after reading this article!
@wiggleronacid Even Nintendo's own titles showed that the 3DS is weaker than Gamecube.
Definitely not a bad game for me but it feels weird for the author to write it so definitively. I played Sunshine as a child and I hatedddd it. But then when I grew up and played again I absolutely fell in love with the game and especially with FLUDD I felt like I was about to be more precise with my jumps and everything else. There are some frustrating levels but in general, it's a really beautiful experience that definitely has held up for me. I don't understand why people get upset over levels being too difficult when there are so many to choose from and there is only like 4 levels that can frustrate you out of like 50 (I just completely made up those numbers but you get the point haha).
I had some fun moments with Sunshine a couple of years ago - after Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. And that is the problem, as you say Mike. I hadn't played it back in the days and went on to play it 10 years after release.
And I have the EXACT same problem: the camera. I wanted to play; the game was inviting me to, but the camera beat me up every single moment. It was massively frustrating.
Interesting though, last year I replayed Mario 64 again on the WiiU and the camera never felt that bad.
This only makes me want a Galaxy 3, really.
You get used and prefer the control that you have over the camera. The game is a masterpiece.
I thought this piece was going to be about the camera, I can't believe it ended by saying that Super Mario Sunshine is a very bad game.
I'm in the camp of people who weren't enamoured by the game, it felt a bit rough round the edges and unfinished. I got to a certain stage and just couldn't be bothered to play it any more. Seems to be one of those titles that splits people down the middle.
This game was such a big part of my childhood and will remain one of my favorite video games of all time. Of course, as I've gotten older, I've been able to recognize the flaws and I can understand why people wouldn't have liked it.
I actually tried it out a few months ago - and I really tried - but it just wasn't that much fun. Already at the first boss fight I gave up. The controls and the camera were wonky, using FLUDD just didn't feel right and when you run out of water, you're basically doomed. Also, I found the world very confusing, never knew where to go.
This was definitely worse than Mario Galaxy 1& 2 and Mario 64 in every aspect.
Been replaying this game, and I still don't see anything horribly wrong with this game. The Blue Coins are pretty much the only valid complain with this game, beyond that it's pretty much perfect. As far as the camera goes, I'm noticing it needs a lot of adjustment, but I'll gladly take that over 64, Galaxy, and 3D Land/3D World's cameras. It's a lot more fluid than the cameras in those games so you can pretty much fix it on the fly while you're moving around.
Unpopular opinion, but I agree with the author. Super Mario is my favorite series, and Sunshine is the ONLY installment I couldn't get into.
The camera and controls are just far too frustrating to try and devote the time. I remember this one stage where you had to climb up it vertically, and after one too many times falling all the way down because I couldn't see, I just stopped playing the game.
I still hope that Nintendo does a remake of this game though, as I think if they spent the time to fix the camera and tighten the controls, I would love this game.
Also, I just beat the Pachinko level on my first try. It's kind of bad, but not really as much as people say.
I rarely sell what I purchase but I wound up doing just that with Super Mario Sunshine. The game was beautiful, the music enjoyable, and I liked the new mechanics. It was the god-awful Shadow Mario and coin challenges that killed the experience for me. They amplify all of the game's flaws. Stripping the player of FLUDD, the very thing that makes Sunshine unique, was also a mistake.
I've never actually tried Super Mario 64 or Sunshine before, so I have a legitimate question here: What exactly is so bad about the camera in those two games? This article never does a good job of explaining the issues Mike had with the camera.
Now I did try the first Galaxy and hated its camera due to it being completely manual. Now what is up with that? Why would I want that kind of camera in a 3D platformer?! The fact that many of the worlds involved running across spherical areas made it even worse by always making me run sideways and upside-side down if I didn't take the time to make camera adjustments every few feet. No platformer should force you keep making manual camera adjustments on the fly like that while you're trying to concentrate on actually playing the game! Good 3D platformer cameras should either have fixed camera angles with the levels designed around them (like in 3D Land/World), or they should be behind-the-back automatic cameras that have manual adjustments available just for the rare situations where you actually need a different viewpoint (like in the Sonic Adventure duology).
I always felt there was something to be said for the fact that this game was so focused around the FLUDD and yet myself and almost everyone I have talked to always found the little obstacle course sections (where they take the FLUDD away from you) to be the most enjoyable sections of the game. I haven't revisited the game in quite a while though.
@Marxally eh to each their own galaxy is a far better game but sunshine is ok, Galaxy 2 is superior in late-game design though.
@Bolt_Strike I prefer Galaxy 2 and World by far. But everyones different. To each their own
@memoryman3 3DS has better games though, Gamecube was a sleeper hit, and uh...3DS is a handheld, and its sold FAR better then the Gamecube could ever wish too, more games, cheaper games, cheaper system and the 3DS is still around, gamecube = an afterthought MOST of the good titles (RE4, Okami, Wind Waker HD, Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess) have been remade, remastered on Wii/Wii U/3DS/New 3DS there is little to no reason to own a gamecube at this point unless you want to play Sunshine which isn't a bad game, but its by far not close to the best Mario title.
@JTMnM Yea to each their own we are all different, but I couldnt get into SUnshine - for me Galaxy , and Galaxy 2 (esp galaxy's 2 world design is much better) and I prefer 3D World in terms of late-game challenge.
I LOVE Super Mario Sunshine! It's so unique and the difficulty gives you that NES Mario feel I appreciate. Very rewarding feeling beating this game. Not to mention FLUDD is my favorite Mario power up (er.. character?) of all-time. It's addicting. Reviewers liked this game and it's a 92 on Metacritic. Bad game? Nope. Bad gamer? Yes, you are.
CVG 10/10
Game Informer 9.75/10
EGM 9.5/10
1UP A
GamePro 5 Stars
IGN 9.4/10
Seriously just admit you are biased because it kicked your butt.
Booooo, I went back and finally completed it a few years ago. Loved every minute of it! Played half of odyssey and kinda got a bit bored 😐
Just played this on 3d all stars collection on switch and I can confirm that it is still hard
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