The Nintendo 64 controller is one that has fallen out of favour with some gamers – its outdated control stick and limited number of buttons leaves it and its parent system in a state of being old but without necessarily being seen by the general public as 'retro'. You could easily say the same for Sony's original PlayStation – they're old, but perhaps not old enough. To say the PlayStation's controller hasn't had an impact on how modern controllers are designed would be foolhardy, even if the fact that Sony's controllers arguably haven't evolved a great deal is often ignored. The N64's role in defining modern controllers is perhaps a bit trickier to see, but it's certainly had its own influence.
The N64 was released in 1996, and its three-handled input device was a sight to behold – not only did it have the comfortable long handles similar to the original PlayStation controller, but it had something that no other controller had quite managed to pull off effectively, a thumb-controlled analogue stick.
Analogue sticks had been around for a long time before the N64, but they were enormous, clunky peripherals that completely took up the use of a hand, which is hard on the wrist and easy to break with the full force of an arm behind it. Sega did release a controller with an analogue stick for the Sega Saturn, but due to the Saturn’s short life, limited compatibility and the fact that the controllers were not bundled with the system, it was never successful. Game developers had little interest in analogue technology, instead preferring to use the digital directional pad which was cheaper and easy to use, but the N64 needed this input due to another aspect that brought the console into the limelight — full 3D games. The digital directional pad was good enough for simple 3D games or games that used such graphics but performed on a 2D plane, but Nintendo was really pushing 3D games as an important medium, and the old-fashioned D-pad just wasn't going to cut it.
Nintendo was placing a lot of faith in this new control method – especially given that Sega’s attempt was a failure – and given that 3D games were such a new idea at the time there was no guarantee that consumers would appreciate an extra dimension in their living rooms. Luckily for Nintendo 3D gameplay wowed gamers, and it very quickly became the next fashion trend for games. Suddenly the 2D platformers that had dominated the previous generation were overshadowed by the complexity and realistic movement presented by games like Pilotwings 64 and Super Mario 64. Nintendo’s gamble paid off — even if system sales were lower than predecessors, for a variety of reasons — and 3D gaming has become bigger than its 2D counterpart in many faculties today.
The eponymous controller also brought a number of other standard gaming conventions to the table. The expansion slot on the back of the controller allowed a number of peripherals allowing for all sorts of added gameplay mechanics. The biggest innovation to come from the expansion slot on the controller was undoubtedly the Rumble Pak – a lump of plastic that added half of the weight of the controller again in exchange for force feedback in certain games. This was the first time physical feedback had been used in a home console; despite the extra heft it gave the controller during gameplay it was extremely popular, to the extent in Japan that Super Mario 64 was re-released in 1997 with added functionality for the peripheral. These days you'd be hard-pressed to find a controller that doesn't offer this feature, with the exception of Microsoft's Kinect, as that would be unsettling.
There's a burning question that has been pestering gamers across the globe for years, however — why does the controller have three handles? The answer has never officially come to light, and whilst many younger gamers took the design for granted, it left many older gamers wondering. If we draw from what has been discussed above, it is entirely possible that the reason for the unusual design was simply as a safety net – no one had any idea whether or not 3D gaming would take off, and in order to make sure the N64 could perform as well as the competing consoles of the time it would have been very short-sighted for Nintendo not to also include an old-fashioned D-pad should the analogue stick have been poorly received. Nowadays we expect to have both available for a single position, but if the analogue stick was made redundant Nintendo would not have wanted a superfluous control method getting in the way of gamers' enjoyment; in order to make sure that there was no risk of this eventuality two hand positions and an additional handle solves all of these potential issues. It's not a new theory, but it's one that certainly holds water. Many people have grown rather fond of the peculiar design and some have even taken it to further extremes.
We owe an awful lot to Nintendo's three-pronged oddity, and if it were not for the risks it took and decisions made the gaming today may well be a very different experience — so thanks Nintendo, your gambles brought us to where we are today.
Don't forget to check out Nintendo 64x64, in which 64 Nintendo 64 games are reviewed over 64 days in just 64 words. 64 is the theme, as you may have guessed, and you can even contribute user reviews to each entry.
Comments 115
I actually did not enjoy the N64 controller, the Saturn one is good for knights and well I have to say the PS one controller rocked! Imo
So does the four-handled N64 controller requires 4 people to use it? Also first.
Edit: Not first....
@3DSfan134 It's for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. There were some dual controller options for them. It wasn't really necessary because the controls weren't as precise as in a modern game.
On a side note, I read an old review of an early FPS on PS that supported the first dual shock and they complained that using one stick to move and one to aim was stupid.
I didn't enjoy any of them controllers at the time, when Saturn, PlayStation, and N64 came about, I was still too busy playing my NES, SMS, Sega Genesis, and Super NES that I didn't care too much about them. I skipped the 32-Bit/64-Bit era and went to Dreamcast, GameCube, and PlayStation 2 instead. I did actually own the Saturn and N64 eventually nowadays but not the PlayStation as I already got a PS2 which render that one obsolete anyways.
The N64 controller sucked.
But the PS1 controller was the best.
I just accepted the design back then. Played Mario Kart 64 a lot and didn't give it much thought.
N64 will never be 'retro'.
One of the most innovative and paradigm shifting controllers ever. I think a LOT of people greatly underestimate this thing, but that just shows their ignorance imo.
It introduced us to analog thumbsticks, multiple ways to hold and play with a single controller so that you could adapt your hand positions specifically to the type of game you were playing (in other words, you didn't have to feel slightly gimped playing older 2D type games on this just because it also happened to be the first analog focused controller too), rumble support and the ability to use four controllers at once on a single console built in by default...
Not only is it FAR FAR more ergonomic and comfortable to actually hold and use than many people seem to think/remember but it's awesome holding one pad in each hand, by the centre prong, and using it to play an fps game like GoldenEye dual handed with dual analog control (It is the FIRST example of "dual analog" control like this in fact, predating the PS1 dual analog controller). Better in fact than most actual dual analog controllers imo, certainly more ergonomic and comfortable, and WAY ahead of it's time. It felt great not having your hands tethered together, which was a change from every other controller prior to this. It even gave you proper rumble relative to the hand you were shooting with in this mode, so it actually felt like the gun in the hand you were firing was recoiling, which is just cool. On top of all that, if you weren't playing games that used analog it was also a top class traditional d-pad, diamond button and shoulder button style controllers too.
Greatly underrated. As clearly witnessed by half of the very ignorant, IMO, comments in this thread.
Note: The N64 controller was shown off by Nintendo long before the Sega Saturn analog pad was ever considered by Sega and the analog Saturn pad was in fact developed in direct response to seeing the revolutionary N64 controller.
huh, didn't know that about the Saturn.
@Franklin, NintendoLife made a mistake on the Saturn controller predating the Nintendo 64 controller. I fact checked it because I remember reading somewhere that when the N64 controller was unveiled, Sega and Sony quickly made their own controller joystick versions. Check out the release dates below:
Nintendo 64: June 23, 1996: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64
Saturn 3D Control Pad: July 5, 1996: http://segaretro.org/3D_Control_Pad
@yuwarite, maybe N64 will never be retro to you personally, but you've got to be considerate of other generations of gamers. The epitome of retro video games for me is the NES, but I know that wouldn't be considered retro to many fans that are older than me.
@VGScrapbook
Also, ignoring the actual retail release dates; the N64 controller was first revealed by Nintendo long before Sega ever conceived of that Saturn pad (as some E3 possibly, as I recall) which was made specifically in response to seeing the revolutionary N64 controller.
Never liked the N64 controlled. After the SNES, Nintendo was trying too hard to introduce innovation in it's hardware when it wasn't really needed. The dual shock has hardly changed in 20 years because it's a really good design and there's no need to introduce change for the sake of change. Leave innovation up to the software.
Oh, and that gen of consoles is definitely retro in my head. Most magazines that cover retro gaming such as Retro Gamer and Games TM consider it retro too, and have done for a long time now. It was 20 years ago.
Should maybe also add that the Playstation 3 did NOT launch with Rumble, and they had to release a new controller and patch in support in some of the earliest games.
They need to correct those "facts" about the Saturn controller predating the N64 controller because that's a lot of misinformed bull (the N64 controller was revealed by Nintendo long before the Saturn controller was ever even a glimmer in Sega's eye*) and it does a great injustice to the N64 pad (on a Nintendo-centric site no less) and just how revolutionary it was for it's time in multiple ways.
The Saturn controller was clearly quickly thrown together by Sega in direct response to seeing Nintendo's revolutionary design.
I LOVE the n64 controller. In retrospect it may not be the most efficient thing but when it came out it was part of a whole that changed things for me. I had preordred a n64 and was blown away when i played mario64 with it.
My friends and I could just wander around for hours just sliding around on the banister in the castle and doing things like dismounting with style. Almost as if it was it's own minigame. We literally didnt stop until we had all 120 stars. Work was missed. I was fired from a crappy mall job, etc, etc.
Its hard to appreciate some thigns if you didnt live it as it unfolded but, to me this controller is a part of history.
I had no idea that the majority opinion was that this controller sucked. Yeah, the 3 handled thing was weird, but the placement of the Z button, using Z and R for each hand, seems so comfortable to me. The N64 analog stick is still superior to any analog stick I have played today. It's so sensitive and tightly-wound, so it's so much easier to walk slow or finely aim something on the N64. I've always wished Nintendo would go back to that kind of input.
I loved the N64 controller! I was one of those weird kids that actually used different hand positions based upon what game I was playing. I was my first truly comfortable controller. Though if you look at my controllers now (yes I still have my originals and they work just fine) you would think I was snorting coke. Those analog sticks...man they should have gone through more testing...
I hate it when people can't respect Nintendo's innovations. If the N64 had quality games, why the hell are you hating the controller?
And that's another problem. Anything Nintendo does, people just insult Nintendo and say "Someone else could've done it so why are you praising Nintendo?" I wish I could punch those who say that as it gets on my nerves a LOT! XD
@Nicolai
Totally agree about the analog stick too. A brand new analog stick on the N64 controller actually felt great and offered basically no dead zone, which is pretty impressive considering virtually all other analog sticks suffer from this, maybe up until this gen at least. Maybe, maybe, it's not actually superior to the very latest analog sticks but it was certainly better than the first few generations from the competitors for sure.
Some people seem to be a bit stupid and relate an old and well worn N64 analog stick to what modern analog sticks feel like it seems to me.
Honestly, the Saturn 3D controller is still one of the best analog controllers I've ever used. I still break out Nights and Panzer Dragoon Saga and some of the racing games on the Saturn and the control is spot on. The N64 controller was a Nightmare compared to it.
You know, and I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I actually think a lot of people used this thing wrong or something.
People do understand that when used in legacy mode, i.e. SNES style mode (d-pad, diamond buttons and shoulder buttons), it's basically as good as any other more traditional old school controller and in some ways superior because of those ergonomic handles, right? You don't put your hand(s) anywhere near the centre prong or Z trigger in this mode. It's just like holding say a PS1 controller (because of the handles) and not using the analog sticks. People get that, right?
No one in their right mind can claim that's a bad or uncomfortable standard old school type controller. That was/is generally as good as those types of controller got.
In "3D" control mode it's obviously not symmetrical but it's still very comfortable to have your left hand on the centre prong (with index on trigger) and your right hand on the right prong (with index on right shoulder button). People do understand that's how you hold it in "3D" mode, right?
I mean I genuinely thinks some idiots might have actually used this thing by holding it by the far left and right prongs and then stretching thier index finger or whatever across to use the analog stick and trigger etc. I know I've seen a couple of complete casuals and noobs try to hold/use it like this in my time. I just expect more from everyone in here.
Also, there the dual analog mode, where you have two N64 controllers with one in each hand held by the centre prong. That was the first example of dual analog control, predating the PS1 dual analog controller and imo it's actually some of the most ergonomically comfortable dual analog controls to date.
I hate to see certain people totally do this controller a great disservice.
I've been playing Doubutso no Mori on the 64 lately, gotta say, the stick has a habit of slipping out from beneath my thumb in a way no other system does.
The middle prong is actually EXACTLY the same as the Wii Nunchuck, so if you've used that it would feel pretty natural.
I think seperate analog and digital controllers would still be a preferable thing. (Floating dpad for the digital). The diagonals are not as good on modern pad designs.
Seriously...
You need to fix the misleading facts in this article.
Seeing the N64 controller is what inspired Sega to even make the Saturn analog controller in the first place.
"Finally, one controller could be held in each hand with a thumb on each analog stick and index fingers on the "Z" trigger. This setup allowed dual-analog control on some first-person shooters such as Perfect Dark...One game, Robotron 64, allowed one player to use two controllers to control an avatar. This way the game played like its predecessor, Robotron 2084. Star Wars Episode 1: Racer, GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark also used this set up for slightly different gameplay experiences (in terms of control, at least) compared to the standard single controller option." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_controller
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197462-goldeneye-007/67055675
A few examples of proper dual analog on N64 before it was "cool" and possible well before the time most people believe Sony introduced this particular innovation to gaming.
Never owned an N64, but I've never enjoyed playing games on them with that weird controller. And more often than not I've seen those controllers w/ the stick broken, just dangling there like a limp ... well you get the idea.
Had a few of the earlier systems - Atari, Colecovision, Atari 7800 - before rejoining the gaming world w/ the PS1 right after they started packing it w/ the Dualshock, about 17 years ago, and haven't found a better controller before or since.
@Nintenjoe64 Actually, this specific controller was made for someone who plays a lot of Star Wars Episode 1 Racer.
Not sure that I understand the hate for the N64 controller seeing as I played mine just over a year ago and found it quite comfortable! Not too mention that much of my all-time favorite games happen to on the system, such as Jet Force Gemini. I will always have happy memories of playing the game with me using Juno and my bro using Floyd with a second controller! Good times!
weird responses. I get the sense that people that don't like it didn't really play with it at the time it released. Of course it looks ridiculous by todays standards but it really did set the stage for all the ones we use today.
At the time it launched I was blown away, it felt so comfortable and amazing despite the bizarre look. I grew up with Atari and to have that little tight joystick on there for 3D movement AND access to all the other buttons truly felt amazing. I remember thinking that there was no way any company would go back to control without it and that's still true.
Like someone said it's the same layout as the wii-mote with nunchuck EXACTLY, and it feels fantastic theres just no need for the separation without motion control. plus the yellow buttons ad lots of options (even as a de-facto D-pad); how is this "less" buttons? it's still plenty by modern standards.
A fantastic controller for an iconic console.I can't understand those who are saying it was uncomfortable,it was anything but.It was the perfect controller to introduce us to 3D gaming and set the standard for 3D controls right from the off.I had 4 of them too and not 1 of them broke on me and my N64 saw far more multiplayer than any other console before or since.This was Nintendo at their peak when it came to the quality of their games and they've rarely been as good since and this unique controller was the perfect way to play these masterpieces!
the N64 controller was one more way Nintendo grabbed me as a young obsessed fan (like some kids on here now). It's clear that this design was a huge risk and it payed off handsomely for us and eventually them because it worked, the same was true for the Wii. They've always taken the huge risks, which they paid for with the virtual boy (not very 3d and sickmaking) and the WiiU (not really a new idea and horribly mismanaged HD development).
the biggest and greatest gambles at Nintendo were made by the genius of Miyamoto who still has a fair amount of sway over there. His design is still what drives their success I just wish the joker at the top could be replaced/fired by... anyone. I can't imagine what will happen to the company when Miyamoto isn't there anymore for any reason ~shudder~, things look bad enough without him at the top.
I do not understand your complaint about the "lack of buttons"?.How was it lacking exactly? Also as Kirk above me has said,the Saturn pad did not come first,it followed soon after and it was well known and reported at the time it was SEGA response to the N64 pad.
The N64 controller is the second greatest controller ever it's only bettered by the cube one! Thank you nintendo!
The N64 controllers was great with me. I didn't have no problems. Sadly, it did met it match when Mario Party came around... so many controller's graves.
@Kirk
For me the best way to hold the thing was with left and right hands holding their corresponding prongs. No matter what directional input I was using.
Whenever I tried holding the center prong with the left hand my thumb always felt too tightly bunched up against the analog and I could never get the accuracy of control had my left hand been holding the left prong.
I dunno, I was in high school at the time I finally got one so my hands were larger...might've been why I held it that way.
@YuuMonMu
Yeah, The Mario Party effect. I never actually broke the analog but there was that definite 'sound' that came apparent when moving the stick.
The N64 controller sure was ugly, bu it was very comfortable. At least it had an analogue stick, unlike the PS1 controller, which gave me 'nintendo thumb'!
Back then12 years ago...0 complaints about controller. Today...wow, how did that thing work? I picked up a n64 on eBay with about 25 games before I resold it...enjoyed games, but realized I don't like controller any more. Even playing VC games feels wired.
The 64 controller is ok. why all the hate people? the 64 is one of the first game systems i had as a child
I've never had a problem with the N64 controler design, and actually have always felt it was elegant in its functionality. They way the Z Button rests under your trigger finger for example is something that's never been replicated as well else where. Controller is still a dream to hold. But the GCN controller is superior is almost every way (a weak D-pad aside)
I've heard horror stories though, of crazy people who hold the controller by the left and right handles and REACH over to the center handle to use the joystick. Its the weirdest damn thing, and apparently not as uncommon as you'd think.
Also the last thing I'd ever say about the N64 controller is that it doesn't have enough buttons. I mean its got 6 face buttons, which made it great for fighting games. Compared to the PS1/2's 4.
@Kirk as far as inspiration from Nintendo for the DC controller is a major stretch. Especially with the VMU and jump pack.
It has far more in common with the Saturn 3D pad than anything else.
@ungibbed
Both the Saturn 3D controller and Dual Shock controller were made in direct response to Nintendo unveiling the revolutionary N64 controller, alongside Super Mario 64's fully 3D game world (which is what convinced everyone that analog thumbsticks were the future), and anyone that was around at the time knows this.
As a very old school gamer, I had a hard time adjusting to the original NES controller of all things
@Kirk you're preaching to the choir with the same repeated statement...
@FubumblR
I honestly thought I was just being a bit cheeky suggesting that anyone in here would actually use the controller like this.
Guess nothing should surprise me in places like this any more.
@ungibbed
Well it's kinda hard to read your sentence (it's written strangely) but it seems to me that you were saying it was a stretch to suggest the Saturn's 3D controller was influenced by the N64 controller...when in reality that is exactly what influenced it through and through. It was made in direct response to seeing the N64 controller. So, if people continue to claim that somehow the Saturn 3D pad wasn't influenced by the N64 pad then I'll continue to correct their mistake. Like I said though, I kinda found it hard to read your sentence, so maybe you weren't saying that.
Edit: My bad. I just went back and checked the post you were referring to and I said Dreamcast when I meant Saturn. That's fixed now. Apologies.
@Jim_Purcell: "...and apparently not as uncommon as you'd think."
Matter of fact, I held it like that. A little awkward at times when I would move the stick to the right, but eventually became easy for me, however some uncomfortable experiences still exists holding the controller that way.
@Everyone_Else: The N64 is home to some games I love, though it is not my favorite system; that honor goes to the Nes, & SNes.
@ungibbed @Kirk
Just saying, for people with larger hands and longer fingers, it's just unwieldy, uncomfortable, and awkward to hold that controller the way you suggest. Whenever I tried it that way it just hindered my gameplay rather than helped it.
Might want to step down from that high horse; no one's play style is the same. Doesn't make someone an "idiot, noob, or casual." Just step off, yo! ;P
I never had a issue with any controller since I started gaming, always just fit in my hand and I played it. N64 is probably one of my favorites honestly, I stick may have had some problems wearing out but it always took a long time and I guess it depended how hardcore you went with certain games.
@FubumblR
So, do you find the Wii Nunchuck uncomfortable too then?
If not then I have no idea what you are talking about because the Wii Nunchuck is basically the N64 controller's centre prong duplicated (analog stick and Z trigger included) with the rest of the controller cut away.
I mean, no offence, but if you have seriously ginormous hands then that's not a problem with the controller design. Products are designed to fit within certain ergonomic ranges, like the min and max size they'd make a d-pad for example (random example), and unfortunately if a person is beyond those min and max ergonomic ranges then it's just a bit unlucky for them.
Still, even with pretty big hands I still kinda fail to see how the hell you could possibly find stretching across to press the frikin Z trigger underneath the controller more comfortable the holding the centre prong properly, like a gun. Never mind controlling both the analog stick and Z trigger that way.
It actually boggles my mind
I mean if that's how you used it then you have no grounds to ever say it wasn't comfortable to play games with it or whatever, should you be saying that (I didn't check if you were or not), because that would be like saying the Wiimote is uncomfortable to play with using your teeth.
The N64 controller is objectively speaking a brilliantly ergonomic bit of controller design. That centre prong is one of the most ergonomically shaped "prongs" in any controller and the whole holding it like a gun, with your index finger naturally resting/pressing the Z button like a gun trigger and your thumb resting in it's default position exactly where the analog stick is situated (without even having to rotate your natural thumb position at all, unlike with basically even single modern controller), is about as comfortable, natural and intuitive as any controller has ever managed.
Of course, if you've got giant mittens for hands then I can understand how that might not apply to you
Hey, those hands might not be designed for gaming but at least the girls will love you for it
Unless you are a girl, in which case the boys should be terrified
wonderful controller, dont remember any whining about it at the time. except for some die hard ps fans
some others have touched on this already but the 64 is getting a lot of hate recently. like a lot of nintendo innovations it is initially alienating but when you sit down and use it, it works. very comfortable controller
@RougeLeader
Exactly.
At the time everyone was pretty aware that this controller basically trounced all over anything that came before it; be it in terms of innovation, ergonomics, versatility, spectacle... The magazine coverage on this thing was pretty unanimous that while it was certainly more "complicated" than any previous controllers it was a clear revolution and basically a paradigm shift in controller design. Once the dual shock came out, having ripped off about 90% of Nintendo's prior innovations at this point, there were obviously quite a lot of people who preferred that design, which is perfectly reasonable. The N64 controller predated the Dual Shock however and gave rise to it in the first place, so the N64 controller is where most of the credit is due.
Every home console developer basically follows Nintendo's lead when it comes to innovation. From the D pad all the way up to motion controls. They continue to inspire numerous company's decisions. Nintendo always made their controllers to match the original games they want to produce. A reason alot of third party developers don't make many games for Nintendo home consoles since the Super Nintendo.
@ZenTurtle
yeah the ps1 controller gave me a scar, thanks sony and bloody destruction derby:)
@FubumblR
I think you got your wires crossed dude. I was speaking about how collectable the N64 is already but only to a certain extent.
Also earlier about how the Dreamcast controller came to be.
So I ask you one question. What are you talking about and replying to me in such manner?
I love the N64 controller a lot. As long as you just ignore the left prong, it's a fantastically useful and comfortable controller. At least for my hands. But maybe I'm an alien?
@Kirk @ungibbed Yeah, I am sorry, wires apparently did cross, so many apologies! please understand.
And yes, I was just stating a fact that it was just more comfortable for my hands to hold it that way, versus your way. Also, for me, it have better grip. When I tried the other other I often lost grip because it felt there wasn't much to hold on to. I'm not criticizing your method, just stating what worked best for me.
And yes, the nunchucks...way too small.
Also, the girls (actually guys) do like em!
Actually I'm sure the three-handle question was answered in Nintendo Power pre-launch of the N64. They expected you to hold either the middle handle for games using primarily the Control Stick (which was most of the games) or the left handle for games using primarily the D-pad (which was few games, like Mischief Makers).
I do remember briefly playing Nights for Saturn on a demo kiosk with the 3D Controller and not finding it very comfortable.
I'll give it props for the analog stick, and the three-pronged approach was a clever albeit somewhat awkward compromise between 2D and 3D gaming, but there's one thing I absolutely hate about the N64 controller: It only has two action buttons on the right side along with a very poorly placed and awkward trigger button underneath the controller. I always have trouble finding and remembering to use that stupid underneath trigger whenever I've played with friends on their N64s.
@FubumblR indeed wires did cross as I never mentioned any manner that I have used my N64 controllers (or Wii at that)
That's something for you and Kirk to figure out.
I disliked the N64 controllers due to an issue not with the ergonomics but the plastic gimbals that would wear down over time resulting in erratic character movement by simply shaking the controller. I used a more traditional looking controller that was the only third party product I used with my game systems in years. The control stick had a longer stem which results in greater accuracy and the innards were metal and plastic. It was called the SuperPad 64 and I am referring to the left side oriented analog control stick model which all only came in black. It was a decent controller as long as you didn't rage quit with it.
The best analog stick Nintendo has made over the years was on the GameCube. Highly accurate and a overall great controller like the Pro Controller is now.
I still don't hold the controller right. When I was a kid I'd hold the controller like every other controller - from the sides, and never the center grip. I still play this way today, and yes, my hand still cramps after a couple hours, but dang it it's worth it.
I was actually having a discussion about the N64 controller with my best friend and I came to the realization that the N64 controller was probably THE WORST controller for any major video game console, but the games were so good we didn't care or notice how bad it was.
On Sony "copying" the SNES design with the dualshock, people do remember Sony and Nintendo originally collaborated on it, right? I don't think it was 'copycating' so much as reusing (and possibly altering) part of the console they were originally working on. In all fairness, everyone now copies their design, even Nintendo.
@KingMike
I belive your right, they covered the N64 during a 'history of' series or something they doing for Nintendo's consoles if I remember right.
@AshFoxX how is it remotely worth holding it like that. Especially if you acknowledge it cramps your hands. There is basicly no game that requires the use of 'all buttons' on the N64 controller at one time. The L and Z buttons are interchangeable by design.
I can remember my friends coming over to play our Nintendo 64 and having no idea how to hold the controller. And it baffled me at the time. With having played so many 3d games like Mario and Goldeneye, I couldn't imagine anyone immediately grabbing the outside handle and try to maneuver the thumb stick. But that's how life works. Until you do something, that task is foreign to you.
I love the Nintendo 64. It's one of my favorite systems, and housed some of my favorite games. It makes me sad to think that some of it's titles won't come to the virtual console. Personally that was my biggest complaint with the Wii shop.
That was a great read. The shape of the n64's controller is very nostalgic and wondrous to me personally.
@Jim_Purcell I wouldn't say it's worth holding it like that, but it's just the way I always held it. If I try to hold it 'properly' with left hand on the middle grip, it feels wrong and my precision is thrown out of whack. I also have fairly large hands now. I'm actually genuinely surprised how comfortable I feel with a wiimote and nunchuck since my left hand is essentially on a middle grip of an N64, in fact it's my preferred controller setup for Wii and Wii U games when I hand the gamepad to someone. I don't even use the Pro controller that much.
Besides, N64 is my all-time favorite video game system, even given the controller design and my absolute ignorance for how to hold it all these years. In the end, the small cramps are worth it for the excellent games I can play. It's also my favorite controller because I was the perfect age when the system came out, and the design is so unique and recognizable so when I see even a shadow of one, I suddenly get the urge to play some fun Nintendo games.
The N64 controller was my favorite until the gamepad......I guess my taste in controllers is outside the norm. The original XBox controller is still my most hated which is probably why MS has never sold me a console.......although the controllers since the original are good.
@yuwarite
Why? Is time going to stand still?
The N64 is retro right now. Hell PS2 is retro now.
@Kirk (#9) Well said. I have to agree whole-heartedly with every single point.
I remember back in the day, I couldn't quite figure out how to hold the N64 Controller; I spent years holding the left prong and stretching my thumb across to the Analog Stick before I thought to hold the centre prong!
PS1 may be the father of mosdern gaming, but even three-habded aliens know their favorite controller - even if it rarely required more than two hands at oce!
@Blue-Thunder
very succinct and accurate, nice work boyo
I really, REALLY hate the N64 controller everything about it is terrible, from the silly design, to the godawful (and far too easily breaking) control stick and awkward button placement I can safely say that it's the worst controller I've ever used and is the main reason why I consider N64 the worst Nintnedo console ever made.
@mjc0961
I think you'll find it really is YOU that's ignorant.
No controller before the N64 pad allowed you to move from your default control position to change how you fundementally played each game i.e. moving your thumb position (or hand position) from one core control method to another. Every single controller prior to this had one single control method and that is all (one main default position). Every single controller since then allows you to play it like a traditional controller or like a modern analog controller, or indeed a combination, simply by switching your default thumb positions. The three handles was an innovation* but it was what this meant to controlling games in general that was the most important part of introducing that particular innovation (the ability to easily switch between multiple control styles on a single controller).
*YOU are the one who is ignorant to what innovation is: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/innovation
If you actually believe the real innovation in modern controllers belongs to Sony then you are completely and utterly clueless. Modern Sony controllers primarily consist of 2 analog thumbsticks (analog thumbsticks which Nintendo introduced on N64), a d-pad (which Nintendo introduced on NES), a 4 button diamond configuration (which Nintendo introduced on the SNES), 2 shoulder buttons (which Nintendo introduced on SNES), 2 extra triggers (Sony introduced the extra set of buttons but Sega made them actual analog triggers first), the Start (Play) and Select (Back) buttons (which Nintendo introduced on NES), the Home button (which Microsoft introduced), rumble support (which Nintendo introduced on N64), a speaker (which Nintendo introduced on Wii), wireless (which Nintendo basically standardised with the Wavebird), the built in full tilt/rotation/motion control (which Nintendo introduced with Wii), clickable thumbsticks (which Sony introduced) and indeed dual analog (which you'll come to understand was actually first possible on N64 if you bother to do some research)...
More than that however...
The whole idea of actually holding a single controller with one hand on either side and with each of your thumbs as the primary control input was pretty much invented by Nintendo, which is what basically every single controller in existence now uses and indeed stemmed from, including Sony's controllers:
http://users.axess.com/twilight/console/
Sony simply took virtually all of Nintendo's prior innovations and combined them into one now industry standard shape, kudos for that, but it only did all of that because it saw Nintendo's examples in the first place which it then copied pretty much directly in most cases, which is why it even came up with idea of including even one, never mind two, of these analog thumbsticks in the first f'n place. So, putting the two analog sticks on the single pad, adding an additional set of shoulder buttons (not analog triggers though as that was Sega that made them analog) and clickable thumbsticks is basically what we can thank Sony for (along with a couple of other very recent things, if they even catch on, like a little touch panel and a share button).
Sony has done a lot for modern controller design but Nintendo has contributed far more to what we now consider the standard controller design, feature set and layout than any other company in history.
That is an absolute indisputable FACT.
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about whatsoever.
PS. If you don't understand the simple concept that the particular physical moulded shape of all three of the handles on the N64 controller are basically about as comfortable and ergonomically sound as any controller handle/grip part where you actually hold the thing (with maybe the GC handles matching and possibly even surpassing that), even more so the centre one because both the trigger and analog stick were also positioned perfectly in line with where your thumb and index fingers would naturally rest too, then you are mental.
No controllers in existence surpass the N64/GC in terms of the excellence of the ergonomic shaping of their handles (the bit you actually grip). I guess the Wii Nunchuck is just as good, brilliantly ergonomic, but that really is just the centre prong of the N64 controller once again. Most of the PS controller model's handles don't even come close in that particular respect, although the Dual Shock 4 handles are much better and more comfortable than any previous models. Still not as good as either the N64 or GC though.
Just grip/hold the f'n things and actually feel how comfortably/naturally each of those handle designs/shapes fits into your default hand/grip...
That should be all the proof you need.
@GamerZack87
That genuinely boggles my mind lol
Maybe I was a wee bit lucky because before the thing was even released I saw all the video game magazine coverage where Nintendo had clearly laid out the 3 core positions you could hold the controller in for different types of games.
I'd like to think I'd have actually figured it out without that information however.
@Nintenjoe64 I wonder what that reviewer is up to now days... You think he has ever gotten used to the idea of dual analogue controllers for FPS games?
I won't have a bad word said about this controller. Sure it looks weird and clunky now, but without it there would arguably be no analogue thumb sticks, no rumble features, no triggers.
On a side note: Nintendo also standardised the D-pad, shoulder buttons and diamond face button layouts. They pretty much made modern controllers what they are.
@ZenTurtle I went through a weird phase where I also thought the N64 graphics kinda looked like dog turds. Primarily due to how it compressed textures. For a while there I was preferring the graphics of the PS1 over it (those lush uncompressed blocky pixels drool) even though the N64 had superior geometry and was capable of far larger environments.
But then something happened, I started playing more N64 games again. And suddenly it didn't look quite as bad as I had been telling myself it had been. Maybe because I was using my smaller CRT TV over a larger one I had been using? Either way its actually not aged as badly as I thought it had. And the gameplay of all the classics are as solid as ever.
Best controller ever - it's not like you ever use an analogue stick and d-pad simultaneosly so it makes total sense
Also the z-trigger, best button placement ever.
My Nintendo 64 gave me some of my most treasured memories of my childhood. I distinctly remember playing games like Donkey Kong 64, Banjo Kazooie, and Jet Force Gemini which are some of my all time favorite games that I still enjoy playing today. I had a little trouble holding the Nintendo 64 controller as a kid, but with enough determination one can accomplish anything. Great memories.
@Mk_II Oh, It does look perfect for Goldeneye.
I hated using it, but it does deserve credit for innovation. And I've never heard that the reason for three handles isn't known, I always heard that it allowed for three different hand configurations for developers.
@FantasiaWHT
Yeah, there's no real mystery behind the three handle design as I see it.
Nintendo wanted to give designers/gamers the option of designing/playing games either more traditionally using just the left and right handles (SNES style, without compromise, since that was still the standard until that point) or in it's new-fangled 3D way using the centre prong (with the innovative/revolutionary Z trigger and analog thumbstick) in conjunction with either of the other handles (usually the right one but in some cases you could switch this for lefties).
I'm of the opinion Nintendo's designers simply didn't think of having a more traditional dual handle design with this controller (or they had the idea and dismissed it) because that wasn't actually a common thing at the time (the specific dual handle setup) and with only one analog stick it would have looked very unbalanced with only two handles and one analog stick stuck probably on the left side, plus it would mean you'd probably have to keep switching your thumb between the analog stick and whatever other buttons and inputs (like we see on most modern controllers). I think at that time Nintendo was very much focussed on trying to design controllers where you didn't have to move your thumbs off their default positions all the time during play unless absolutely necessary (which you can see all of it's controllers prior to the GC controller managed pretty successfully).
At the time the N64 controller design actually made a lot of sense, with the function informing the form, and that's pretty much why it looks the way it does imo.
Nice article... just two points about it:
1) Not all analog sticks were massive and cumbersome, evidently the writer may not have played a Vectrex console before. Yes, the whole joypad is large, but that fits a stick and four buttons and is excellent in general for arcade style games.
2) The 3D Control Pad for the Saturn did NOT pre-date the N64, it launched with NiGHTS two weeks after the launch of the N64. So it was in development simultaneously at most.
personally i love the n64 controller and loved how it felt and would love a classic controller version for wii u, there are some modern i would prefer using it with
@Jim_Purcell @Kirk
I totally agree about the gun-like trigger feel of the N64 controller - always felt perfect to me and subsequent controllers have felt lacking in this aspect for me. Would've been good to see this mentioned briefly in the article even if the thrust of the piece wasn't about ergonomics!
@BulbasaurusRex
I understand that everyone has different opinions and perspectives and that, regarding gaming, different people might've started out on and got used to different controllers. However, I am genuinely interested to know how you found it difficult to locate the underneath trigger button given that many would argue that the default location for the index finger was essentially resting on the trigger button?
the control stick would break if you set it down roughly so i use a 3rd party controller with only the center handle and a metal control stick
@triggertastic64
Regarding BulbasaurusRex, Like some of the other people in here, he was probably holding the thing entirely wrong.
@Mayhem
The Saturn 3D controller was developed by Sega in direct response to seeing the N64 controller for the first time at Nintendo's N64 E3 reveal, or whenever it was first revealed if not E3, so it definitely wasn't secretly in development alongside the N64 controller and just happened to release at roughly the same time or whatever. It was created as a direct response to the N64 controller but obviously went through a much quicker development cycle that just ended up with it being released at pretty much the same time. Same thing applies to the first PS1 dual analog controller too.
N64 controller sucked really bad, that's where Nintendo loss me as a customer after I had grown with NES and SNES.... saw the picture of the N64 in gamepro (remember that) and said "How am I supposed to play Street Fighter with that?" then saw the Playstation with a familar looking controller and jumped ship.......
@DualWielding how am I suppose to play a six button fighter with six buttons?
@electrolite77 @VGScrapbook Hell yeah, NES (and older) is what I would define as Retro as well. I feel lucky to have gamed in the zeitgeist of the NES era and witness the medium evolve to where it is today, and you should do too.
And did neither of you read the article? I was just agreeing to the sentiment: "and its parent system in a state of being old but without necessarily being seen by the general public as 'retro'."
@Jim_Purcell
Indeed.
Sums up the intelligence level of some people in these places.
I mean he made that comment about how is he supposed to play Street Fighter on the N64 controller and then went on about the PlayStation controller, which only has 4 face buttons, making him jump ship because it looked familiar...
Sometimes I despair.
After reading this post I hoped to find someone stating that they handle the controller like ME !!! But I couldn´t find anyone !
I used to have an impressive ability playing with the N64 controller because I used three fingers to control the stick instead of only the thumb (the thumb, the index and the middle). All of my left hand used for controlling the character and the right for all the rest of the buttons (including Z). In fighting games and in shooting games like Conker´s Bad Fur Day´s multiplayer, I had an incredible accuracy and response playing with Einstein AI that way. Try it , my friends called me weirdo for that but agreed in my arguments. And I have to state, it is a great and unique controller, excellent in ergonomics for me.
As much as I love the N64, and most of its library, I absolutely HATE the controller, even trying to play anything aside from a ship simulator (Rouge Squadron anyone?) or Pokemon Stadium/Rpgs is impossible. I have no idea how I even managed to play Golden Eye back in the day xD
Ah that Saturn controller still need to get myself one of those. The n64 analogue stick worked great although I think my controller had a drug problem every time I went to use it the thing was covered in powder.
@ReigningSemtex
Haha, the powder issue was one of the bad choices Nintendo had made with all parts of the controller rubbing together with the analog gimbal. The only fix was to replace the controller entirely. Bad design on something that was supposed to be a primary input method.
The same issue still happens with modern PS3 controllers but the actual gimbal is not affected like that of the N64. The same design element also goes back to PS2 and the original Dual Shock controllers for the main competitor, the original PlayStation.
All of the Dual Shock series of controllers would wear down at the base of the thumb stick just before the cover that covered the internal rockers.
@Kirk
"The Saturn 3D controller was developed by Sega in direct response to seeing the N64 controller for the first time at Nintendo's N64 E3 reveal, or whenever it was first revealed if not E3, so it definitely wasn't secretly in development alongside the N64 controller and just happened to release at roughly the same time or whatever. It was created as a direct response to the N64 controller but obviously went through a much quicker development cycle that just ended up with it being released at pretty much the same time. Same thing applies to the first PS1 dual analog controller too."
Clearing things up...
The Saturn 3D pad was in no way "rushed" as it also would work in a few racing titles that were released before the controller it was though seen as a failure since the Saturn was not getting the support like the PlayStation was.
The launch of the original Dual Shock controller was grand marketing. The controllers were made available just as the original Gran Turismo was released. Having analog steering as well as throttle and braking using both sticks was a major boost of having the right game at the right time to sell the newer Dual Shock controllers and retiring the original digital controllers (which were also much smaller).
Nintendo did bring analog control to the game consoles, Sony had perfected it with a very sturdy design that didn't require you to move your hand from one position to another such as the left hand on the N64. With the Dual Shock, both digital controls and analog controls were far more ergonomic in design.
Back to the Saturn 3D controller, it was a very odd design that "worked" but perfected with the Dreamcast later on. The best controller Sega had made in ages was the six button Genesis Arcade Pad. The perfect layout for Street Fighter' II. Sega had always made sturdy controllers for all their consoles and along with simple Gamepad style controllers of the time, Sega also had made great joystick controllers (as well as NEC). The only joystick Nintendo had made was the NES Advantage and a personal favorite of mine was the long forgotten NES Max which was perfect for Blades Of Steel and a few SHMUPS.
Neither controller nor the NES specialty "hands free" controller were ever improvised upon for any future system. That all being said a new personal favorite is the Wii U Pro Controller. Great battery life and strong rumble but one failure (along with the Wii U Game Pad) was the lack of analog triggers (any combo of L & R buttons at all) is a huge failure despite how sturdy the build of the Wii U controllers are at all.
@ungibbed
Not rushed in the sense that it was badly made or whatever but just that it was made in direct response to seeing the N64 pad and developed within a time that meant it would be released around about the same time Nintendo's revolutionary controller was scheduled to hit the market. Basically, I'm pretty sure that Sega made the decision to get that thing developed and out relatively quickly after Nintendo revealed the N64 controller.
The digital controls on the Sony controllers were not far more ergonomic in design in the slightest: The d-pad on the N64 controller poops on the one seen on the Dual Shock. The handle grips on the N64 controller poop on those found on the Dual Shock in terms of ergonomics, from a great height. The face button on the controllers are kinda half and half, with the A and B buttons arguably being better than any of the face buttons on the Dual Shock, slightly bigger and more comfortable to use, but the overall diamond configuring of four standard face buttons being slightly more comfortable than using those c buttons on the N64 controller but then there's the fact the N64 actually had six face buttons in the first place vs the Dual Shocks 4. The shoulder buttons on either controller are basically the same. I think this one really comes down to personal preference and to be honest I think both controllers were very good in this particular respect. I certainly never had any issues playing DOOM 64 using the N64 pad for example (which used the more classic gameplay controls of d-pad, face buttons and shoulder buttons). I also never had any issues playing more standard digital control type games on any of the PS controllers.
Personally, I find the Wii U Pro Controller slightly uncomfortable to use, despite me initially thinking it looked like one of the best traditional type controller designs I had seen. I think maybe it's a tiny bit too wide for my hands or something. Not having the analog functionality of one of the sets of shoulder buttons really was a stupid omission imo of what is basically an industry standard controller feature at this point.
Nintendo should have already N64 Virtual Console! Any estimates anyone as of when they will finally release it?
@Kirk
You know well that I was referring to the use from digital to analog on the Dual Shock controller. You never had to remove your left hand to use the directional pad as needed with the N64 controller. No need to twist words for the sake of argument.
Where did I compare face buttons? The N64 Never got a version of Street Fighter' II so your point is moot and downright useless. The C buttons were never designed to be used that way. End of story.
Finally, If the N64 controller was sooooo great, why did Nintendo not make a newer design resembling it on the GameCube? Even R&D inside Nintendo were unsure about the design of the N64 controller and the easily worn out control sticks which were a poor design overall and replaced in the far more accurate analog stick on the GameCube controller (which had four face buttons...)
@ungibbed
I know what you write and that's not how it came across. I thought you were simply saying [both] the Dual Shock's digital controls [and the analog controls] were superior in ergonomics. That's how it read.
If you meant it was easier to reach back and forth between the digital and analog controls on the Dual Shock then you probably should have said that. Edit: I do not disagree with this.
The rest of the stuff I said about the various digital controls on each pad, comparing the face buttons for example, was simply in response to my initial interpretation of your comment.
The N64 controller was a total and utter revolution and paradigm shift in game controller design when it launched (the biggest evolution/revolution in controller design since the NES controller), that's not even up for debate. The GC controller was an evolution and combination of both the N64 controller and the Dual Shock, taking a lot [but not all] of the strengths from each controlling and combining them into one. No one is suggesting the N64 couldn't be improved upon later down the line. That would just be stupid.
@Kirk
"I know what you write and that's not how it came across. I thought you were simply saying [both] the Dual Shock's digital controls [and the analog controls] were superior in design. That's how it read.
If you meant it was easier to reach back and forth between the digital and analog controls on the Dual Shock then you probably should have said that.
The rest of the stuff I said about the various digital controls on each pad was in response to my initial interpretation of your comment."
Anyone with even the slightest logical thought would know that as fact the moment they played the same exact game that involved use of both controllers.
To simplify the issue with the N64 controller design...
Take a game example involving inventory management and you can have four of your most common used items placed as a shortcut to make use of;
The Dual Shock:
Using the D Pad to select some item in a game only requires a slight movement in the radius movement of your thumb. Quick and painless and if you're in a tough situation where you need to use any item assigned to the D Pad is easy to work with.
N64 standard controller in the same rush situation requires you to remove your left hand to make use of said item, while you constantly have to move your hand back and fourth between input with that same situation. Chances are that your toon is going to die.
So that's why the C directional buttons exist to begin with. Developers use them while the directional pad is "dead" on the N64 pad and effectively has fewer button options and mechanics since the directional pad and L button are rarely used due to bad ergonomics. I've seen many third party controllers sell just to get away from the outer handles that really put a big message out... Never style over substance. That is one mistake Nintendo made.
There's many games that simply don't work well as a port and why Street Fighter' II and other genres were not well received on the N64 due to the limits of control options as Nintendo wanted to push the use of the analog stick upon former developers.
Thankfully the Z button was there for some shooters but some were so difficult to remember the play mechanics due to button combos required for advanced movement within many different games.
This is the last I'm going to speak on this subject as nostalgia often blinds plain common sense.
@ungibbed
I'm thinking you maybe have some problems with English, like it isn't your first language or something, because not only are you saying things in a way you didn't quite mean to say them, it seems, but you are also misinterpreting what I am saying.
If English is your first language I suggest you maybe practice a bit more at both reading and writing it and then we can avoid you continuing to debate points I am not actually arguing about.
In fact; if English ISN'T your first language I ALSO suggest you maybe practice a bit more at both reading and writing it and then we can avoid you continuing to debate points I am not actually arguing about.
@Kirk
If you have to resort to such means, you don't have a true counterpoint to my own.
Stating that I lack reading skills when you refuse (or fail) to understand English is laughable. Everyone else can understand me just fine.
The real problem seems that you have issues making your point objectively. Instead you remain subjective and continue to argue with others since you fail to see such a situation without being able to take a unbiased stance.
If these words are too big for you, it's time you may consider completing grade school English.
@ungibbed
The funny thing here is that you still don't realise we're not even arguing about the same thing and yet you also assume you're somehow winning with the points you are making.
@yuwarite Of course it will. "Retro" is about age, and therefore the N64 will become "retro", just as cars are eventually deemed "classic".
@Kirk
"The funny thing here is that you still don't realise we're not even arguing about the same thing and yet you also assume you're somehow winning with the points you are making."
If you really think you're arguing and somehow "winning", you only make yourself look like a complete fool. You are NOT making any point at all even with such childish remarks. That said, the more you argue, the more foolish you look just by doing so.
I predict you spouting off more nonsense in yet another attempt at winning absolutely nothing. So raise your glass in the spirit of false hopes
@ungibbed
It's sooo funny.
You still don't get it. We're not even arguing about what you think we're arguing about!
lol
You said something about switching between analog and digital (although that's not how you actually initially said it in the last sentence of the paragraph which is the only bit I responded to and challenged, hence the confusion). I basically agree with you, but I initially misinterpreted what you said because you didn't make it clear that the statement in the last sentence of the paragraph was directly in relation to the first sentence. I told you that you said it badly and I explained what it seemed like you were saying and that my responses regarding the face buttons and stuff relate to what I thought you were initially saying (in that last sentence of the paragraph). You then continued to go on like I was still arguing with your initial point, which I wasn't in the first place and haven't been even debating since about my second response to you. You still however think we're arguing about the various benefits and negative of using these controllers if you're having to switch between one type of control to the other (back and forth from digital to analog and visa vera), which we never actually were because I've already told you that if you only meant in terms of switching quickly and comfortably from analog to digital and visa versa then I agree with you (you just didn't make that clear in your original post)...
You said "With the Dual Shock, both digital controls and analog controls were far more ergonomic in design.". Your sentence was not written in a way that made it clear this comment/sentence was directly connect/relating to the previous sentence and therefor I disagreed with that claim in and of itself. Everything I said in response to that sentence was regarding the perceived claim that "with Dual Shock...the digital controls...were far more ergonomic in design". I never disagreed with the first part of the whole paragraph however, as I have already stated, and I still don't. Once you cleared up that you meant that end sentence in the context of the prior sentence I told you that I actually agreed with you regarding that point.
I can't lose an argument I'm not making and you can't win an argument I'm not even disagreeing with in the first place.
LOL
@Kirk
tl;dr
You have not a clue but keep trying to sound like you got everything figured out. Please by all means, keep us entertained being the amazing fanboy you are that doesn't understand. After all, the internet is serious business...
You are boring me now with such a closed mind that you lack the ability to understand what you're even talking about that it truly boggles the mind.
Thanks for the laughs! ROFL
P.S. If you win or lose a argument with a complete stranger, what have you gained or learned?
I have to say I did like the N64 controller for Nintendo games but one of my favourite games of all time is Street Fighter 2 so the step away from the standard SNES design meant that it didn't actually support third party games as well as say the PS1 / Sega Saturn controllers at the time.
My opinion is that a standard console controller should support a variety of different types of games and special controllers should be kept as peripherals.
The N64 was the start of Nintendos controller shenanigans and Nintendo has never been the same since good or bad 3rd parties now lack but the controller is good for Nintendo games whichever one they decide to bring out next
@MC808 By your logic, N64 is retro right now, technically, as is the 3DO and Saturn, etc.
That's not really my point, though. There's a state of mind about what's good-retro or what's endearing retro; things like 2D bitmaps of Mario, Space Invaders, Pac-man ghosts, etc, are endearing to people, more so than the crass 3D objects seen in N64 games. Many modern indie developers, when they say they're making a "Retro" game, typically fashion it in NES/SNES/Atari style, not N64 style 3D. Even Minecraft or 3D Dot Game Heroes are 3D but use minimal pixels in the textures as if replicate a bitmap for a NES/SNES game done in 3D.
I bet in 40 years from now, if you were to ask a child to draw something pertaining to a retro video game, they'd probably draw something iconic from the 2D era, and not something pertaining to N64.
@yuwarite Yeah, in my mind I do consider those systems to be retro now, if maybe to a lesser degree than "2D" systems. But this is a subjective thing to me, and not really that important when it comes right down to it.
And systems such as DC or Saturn (and PS1) have a number of "2D retro" style games. 2D isn't the decider of whether or not a system/game is retro, and by the same token, 3D doesn't arbitrarily dictate non-retro. If that makes sense......
@retro_player_22
Old post, but same. I skipped that whole Gen and glad I did!
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