The Wii U's lack of commercial success is largely down to the rapidly-expanding tablet sector, says Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto.
Speaking to NPR, Miyamoto stated that during early development the Wii U GamePad was seen as a game-changing controller, but by the time it made it to market in 2012 tablets like the iPad had made its features look ordinary.
He admitted that the high price of the console was also a contributing factor, and the fact that people simply didn't "get" the console:
Unfortunately with our latest system, the Wii U, the price point was one that ended up getting a little higher than we wanted. I don't think it's just price, because if the system is appealing enough, people will buy it even if the price is a little bit high. I think with Wii U, our challenge was that perhaps people didn't understand the system.
I think unfortunately what ended up happening was that tablets themselves appeared in the marketplace and evolved very, very rapidly, and unfortunately the Wii [U] system launched at a time where the uniqueness of those features were perhaps not as strong as they were when we had first begun developing them.
So what I think is unique about Nintendo is we're constantly trying to do unique and different things. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they're not as big of a hit as we would like to hope.
Although he didn't say much about the Wii U's successor, the Nintendo NX, Miyamoto did state that he had high hopes for the platform - but maintained that affordability and innovative remain Nintendo's primary goals:
After Wii U, we're hoping that next time it will be a very big hit. But really what's most important to us is, how do we create a system that is both unique and affordable so that everyone can afford it and everyone can enjoy it.
Image credit: TechRadar
[source videogamer.com, via npr.org]
Comments 215
And cue the hateful comments that are going to come because Nintendo is somehow guilty of the crime of being truthful and honest.
As long as it has good games, thats all that matters to me.
This is a surprisingly transparent comment. Very interesting! I wonder if he knows they did a really bad job marketing it initially... I'm going to keep playing and loving my WiiU, but I'm excited to see what's in store for Nintendo with NX. As long as it's not a Nintendo tablet or smartphone.
It sounds like they never thought of a real reason for the gamepad, but rather just thought of the gamepad and then hoped a reason for it would show up. Off-screen play was pretty much the highlight.
I hope they've learned their lesson that hardware doesn't always have to come with these gimmicks. It worked spectacularly for the Wii so I think they just became convinced they needed to do it again. The NES, SNES, 64 and Cube were all fine consoles without any of that stuff. Do the innovating on the software side. The comments about wanting it to be unique make me think we're just going to see the same thing happen again though. If you make it unique, you make multiplatform games difficult. 3rd parties aren't going to make exclusive games for you unless software is selling by the bucketload, and that's probably not a gamble Nintendo should be making. Make the hardware simple and easy for developers to use, then blow us away with the GAMES.
nonono Nintendo it's just the Wii U barely has anything making the purchase worthwhile, tablets never stole any thunder
No; not having many games that truly showcased the GamePad's uniqueness and coolness at launch and in the launch window—games like Super Mario Maker and Art Academy: Atlier for example—stole the Wii U's thunder. Something like Super Mario Maker (and even Art Academy too) should have been built directly into the console imo, and available day one out-the-box for every single Wii U owner to experience for free, and share all their cool creations with their friends. That would have been a system selling feature right there for millions of people as far as I'm concerned.
Also; not being able to use multiple GamePads at once (irrespective of the reasons/excuses why)—meaning you had to resort to using the likes of Wiimotes for local multiplayer games—stole some of the Wii U's true potential thunder, imo. I mean just imagine a proper 4 player local multiplayer version of Splatoon, where the TV showed the four main gameplay windows, GoldenEye style, and each person had their Map view on the GamePad. Or even some version where each player had the main game view on the GamePad and the map was on the TV (where they'd have to press a button to switch to the map so they could tap it to jump to their teammates, or whatever)...
Even not being able to not move that far from the main console box with the Wii U GamePad stole some of its thunder—as did the fact it has a really crap battery life. You should have been able to go into your bedroom or toilet and play this thing at your own leisure, for hours on end; kinda like a local portable. It would have been such a cool little extra feature, but most people in normal size houses can't even do that. So disappointing.
That's just a few reasons, of many, why the Wii U wasn't as exciting to people as it could have been imo.
So far I haven't seen the gamepad used in any convincingly interesting way, which obviously has nothing to do with the success of tablets..
IMO it's a bit lame trying to put the blame on 'people not understanding' or tablets, since even if people understood and there weren't any tablets, the gamepad would still be an uninteresting and overly expensive addition to an already underpowered console..
Nintendo has always been about something else than computing capabilities and processor speed. It has always been about new and innovative things. Somehow people just seem to ignore that it's how Nintendo has always done things.
And when NX comes out and it's not more powerful version of PS4 and XOne they will pull up a pea up their nose (finnish expression of getting angry about nothing important).
I so so so so so so much hope it'll be rumored hybrid. It probably won't, but I still hope it. And this is less than a week after I promised I will never be hyped about anything related to Nintendo
@Monkeh Exactly.
Miyamoto is just a bit out of touch and off the pulse these days—it seems to me. He needs to stop making excuses for failures and start delivering again. Star Fox is going to be just another recent game of his—or that his name is attached to in a pretty significant way—that is pretty underwhelming imo.
I find it surprising that they never see the pattern of too few launch titles and problematic sales. Same happened to the 3ds.
They need to have at least one of their big hitters there on launch, and they need to have another one coming up within the first 6 months of launch.
"Here, have a simple mario game that is very similar to what we did last year" with the promise of mario kart or zelda in a year or two, ain't gonna sell consoles.
That being said, i bought my WiiU at launch and love it
Hahahahaha!
@Boyoshi correct: this is literally all that matters, and since I can't get Nintendo games anywhere else*, I'm pre-sold on it and its next portable companion.
*Yes, I know, mobile games but...no.
hey even tablets stole the Wii U's thunder, it's still a great system and I'm looking forward to what the Nintendo NX will be
@Kirk
I think he knows that and the NX is being designed in a way that can be understood at a glance. I believe the NX is a Hybrid type console and it will be a glorified gamepad that plays 3DS, N3DS and Wii U games all in one.
This system would have to be built in 2 parts which are the gamepad 2.0 and the hub box. This system would be a little bit more powerful than the Wii U and there would be a new OS built around scaling games according to the hardware's specs along with a new online platform that's being worked on by DeNA.
This is just my opinion but please tell me what your think.
Please, please don't drop the ball with the NX, I'm usually the optimistic one but I'm having my doubts about its success. It's gonna be quite a battle to court back any third party support. To be fair even if they release something beyond our wildest dreams they probably won't come back. Hopefully it's not too underpowered and gimmicky. Please prove me wrong.
I bet NX will be a touch-based tablet gamepad :/ And that would be the end of Ninendo gaming, since I hate on-screen buttons like I end up having on cellphones...
I think poor marketing and launch window lineup were more prominent. Considering that NMSBU is very similar to NSMB2 and NSMBWii, you'd essentially be buying the console for ZombiU if you already had a 3DS/Wii and either Xbox 360 or PS3.
The console probably would've been a success if everything was moved a year earlier from November 2013 onwards (e.g. 3D World at launch, Mario Kart 8 in May 2013, Smash in November 2013, etc,)
Excellent news that Nintendo are focussing on making NX affordable and innovative. That was the magic formula for Wii and DS's success.
@Grumblevolcano I think thats a valid point, I don't think they expected the third parties to abandon them so quickly, hence why they maybe weren't really prepared with their heavy hitters at launch. Launching with two year old ports from other systems probably didn't help them either.
It's a shame, really, because if you want third party support there are only two options: be similar to the competition (i.e. PlayStation and Xbox) or sell loads of consoles, like what happened to the Wii. Nintendo needs to "get real" and accept the fact that the Wii was an anomaly, it was incredibly successful, but it was definitely an exception to the rule. There is very little chance there will ever be a console that was so under-powered (when compared to the competitors of the same generation) and yet such a commercial hit, IMHO. They tried to replicate it with the Wii U, and we know what happened...
I am a really happy owner of a Wii U, but only because of the exclusive titles. Most people buy a single console, and expect to play everything on it, which includes yearly installments of Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc. If Nintendo tries to be the innovator again with the NX, moving away from the "standard" consoles, it will have a hard time convincing third-parties to develop ports for it, and then it's the Wii U all over again...
I'm loving Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros and Splatoon. That's enough for me.
I love my N64 and GameCube, I still play them, it's only in recent years I've heard people saying they were a failure... I've read online that the Wii was a failure, what's that all about?
@Kirk Thad'd be cool
Kind of like 3DS.
...speaking of which, is something that should somehow be incorporated more.
One example is why they half do it with Super Smash, "Here, a mode to use the controller...only in Smash mode, otherwise you have to choose another one"
And then they drop this 1 EUR add on - of when I read, was sure that it enabled you to use it in all modes, I bought it right away, only to find out afterwards that, no, this was only for people with a 3DS, without Smash on it, who wants to use it to play Smash on the Wii U - once again, only in one mode!
Like, are they kidding us, first of all, how often do you run into that scenario even.
I mean, sure, I guess it does happen, but that just makes it even more of a reason to let you be able to use your 3DS as a controller in all modes.
Just in general, it feels like they should have been able to make an app for the 3DS that just lets it be a controller.
Like many other nit picky things, its not the deal breaker of how good the console is, but it is one of many small things that just feel like they shouldn't be that difficult to fix, and if they had this, along with much other things, the console would feel so much better.
And don't get me wrong, I sound negative, but I love my Wii U, it is my favorite console ever behind the New 3DS.
But it just feels, like said before, so many small things could together give an overall better experience if they were fixed, and many of these small things should not be, or have been to difficult to fix.
@tysonfury those two words make me worry a bit,
ergo affordable = underpowered
Innovative = some kind of forced gimmick.
I guess if they really wanted they could make their controllers backwards compatible. Backwards compatibility in general is always a welcome thing.
Or perhaps a severe lack of proper marketing while your competition hammered the media had something to do with it. So very very frustrating.
Let's just hope they move onto the NX with lessons learned. It would be embarrassing if they made the same mistakes again.
@Peach64 Personally I think gimmicks starts from N64, but yeah, I agree with you.
This and lack of important games, game drought at the beginning of the release of Wii U, bad campain (people didn't even know that Wii U even exists), and of course it's less technologicaly advanced than its rivals: PS4 and XBone, etc etc.
When the NX gets released I better not have to pay for all my VC games again, with there mess up with wii u they need a straight forward transfer system to NX.
Nintendo make awesome stuff, but they forget how important advertising is, why i see only ps4 when i watch the championsleague for example, they need to spam their products in everybodys face, it will help.
Also the name of the console was a bad choice (wiiu) My freinds still think its a wii with some extra features.
I am extremely happy with my wiiu, got some freinds with a ps4 but thats like pc gaming, no innovation at all. Yes it looks good but my gamepc looks 6 times better.
@Ash1189
I dunno, NX coming out mid generation as it is, it could feasibly match PS4/XBone and still be affordable. All they need to do really is put more memory in and ramp up the GPU. They might even do something radical like replace the DVD drive with a micro SD card slot to keep costs down.
Forced gimmicks... I dunno, I liked the DS. Wii was a terrible controller for third party action titles (Godfather: Blackhand... erugh...)
I think/hope it'll be a compromise, not as gimmicky as the Wii, maybe DS-ish level of innovation.
@PinkSpider No man, I think the eShop is here to stay and if you buy it on Wii U it'll work on NX. Well. It better be. Or I'm kickin butt!!
@tysonfury Still, it'll be exciting to see whatever it is. I always get excited most with new Nintendo hardware announcements. It could be anything. MS and Sony's new hardware to me always feels the same, but with more power.
The biggest mistake Nintendo made with the Wii U is the name , it's to similar to the Wii.
Mums and dads and people who aren't all that techy didn't know the difference between the Wii and the Wii U and just thought the Wii U gamepad was an accessory for the Wii.
Didn't help that both consoles look very similar.
Still love my Wii U , looking forward to Nx though.
@tysonfury Personally speaking the hardware type should be the same so porting games can be as simple as pressing a button, also this is just wishful think but maybe the NX will be compatible with GCN, Wii, Wii U, DS, DSI, 3DS, N3DS, NES, SNES, N64, GB, GBC, GBA and VB games. It wouldn't hurt to have TG-16, SMS, MD/G, MC, 32X, Neo Geo AES/MVS, Neo Geo Pocket, Game Gear, DC, Saturn, Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Atari 79000, Atari Lynx and Atari Jaguar games as well as their old Arcade hits as well.
I don't think anyone can hide from the fact that this statement by Miyamoto means the NX is the replacement for the Wii U next Christmas. Next year we'll get SMTFE, Zelda, The Sonic Olympics, and a couple more titles, but everything else is moving to the NX. Shame.
@MrGawain Never say never because they could surprise us in unexpected ways with the NX as we still don't have concrete details on what this thing even is to begin with.
Oh no, 'affordable' means 'underpowered'. Sad times.
@CreativeWelshman if the new NX system is X86 based it would make it difficult to retain backwards compatibility with Wii U titles, the new system would have to vastly more powerful to handle the code translation in real time, not to mention getting the rights to all those other third party sytems in VC would be a daunting task indeed. Though all other Nintendo systems should easily be viable.
Oh, please. The iPad launched in 2010. The Gamepad was nowhere near premium tablet level from the beginning. The Wii U's problems are too many to list, but if there's any one way to sum it up, it's that it simply isn't as appealing as its competitors - the PS4 and Xbox One. People are buying those (and even the 3DS to a lesser extent) instead of Wii U's, Shigeru - not tablets.
And I really don't like that NX quote. Screams that the NX will be the 'economic' console; aka, underpowered. Underpowered with a possible focus on NFC support to continue amiibo. If Nintendo messes this up, they may be dead in the home console market for good.
@adamatsu Or not don't forget about the N64, it wiped the floor with the PS1 and Saturn in terms of graphical prowess all while still being affordable.
@Ash1189
I didn't mean X86 I meant Power PC so they could port their old tools over and make improvements to them without having to relearn the code, also this would ensure that VC games can come to the NX quicker then they did coming to the Wii U as most of the leg work has already being done on Power PC.
@KillScottKill Agreed. But I also think the name really hurt it too. Adding a U to the name doesn't indicate that this is a different console from the original Wii. Some people seem to think it's just a regular Wii but with a tablet controller. Obviously, that's not actually the case.
People are used to numbers indicating a new thing, like movie or book sequels. While the Playstation line just 1 upping a number for every generation isn't very original, at least it clearly indicates that it's the next new version. Wii U should've either been Wii 2, or a completely different name entirely.
'Unique and affordable' essentially means gimmicky and underpowered. It doesn't sound like they've learned their lesson. Fingers crossed.
Sure, blame it on tablets...lol
@Ash1189 @CreativeWelshman
I used to think so too, but then Microsoft announced Xbox 360 discs will now be compatible natively with Xbox One. I dunno how they do that, is it just an emulator? But if Microsoft can do it, Nintendo can also run Wii U games (and all the VC stuff) on an x86 chip too.
Even if it's not x86 - what's really important for developers is what game engines it can run, and system RAM. Studios love the PS4 because it has 8GB of RAM (compared to Wii U's 1GB). Match that and Nintendo are off to a good start.
@DJStarstryker I don't think we'll have that problem again, I feel they'd want to distance themselves from that name now.
@Ash1189 If nintendo haven't done a standard multi-year multi-platform contract with third parties on the eshop then it's major facepalm time....!
@Peach64 Off-screen play, dual screen multiplayer and inventory management/character select/map screen (such as LEGO games) make it worth it for me and for many others who don't realise it until they actually play it.
@Peach64 All their consoles had something to add to gaming. D-Pad, shoulder buttons, analogic stick+rumble+M design to simulate pistols, triggers+linking gba. And there's the DS and 3DS too..
People single out the wii just because they didn't liked retrocess in some areas (all other were increments over the previous) and cattering to casuals.
The Wii U had one of their most standard console controller ever (keep in mind those things only became standard AFTER Nintendo), all it have really different is the touch screen. The gamepad only problem was to increase the price a lot.
Nintendo problem isn't "gimmicks", its mostly not having a good output of games, not being on trend anymore and poor advertising. Had they used the Pro controller or the GC controller or whatever controller, they would still sell under 20 millions.
@tysonfury
The 360 thing is just game specific emulation that the 3rd parties have to approve of first and trust me that sound like a worst case scenario to me as hardware based backwards compatibility is far more reliable even if it's a bit more costly and knowing Nintendo coding the emluators would take forever.
As for the RAM thing the PS4 may have 8GB of GDDR5 but 1GB is held back for the OS and 2.5GB is used for something that can be negociated during the development cycle, whereas the Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM of which 1GB is used for the OS and other background tasks as far as we know and the Wii U's GPGPU has 512 MB of EDRAM ease the work flow for the system.
I could try to explain more but I'm not an hardware expert and I'm only going of what I've seen released to the public.
I for one enjoy Nintendo's approach of unique and affordable tech so I'm glad Nintendo is still trying new things and Miyamoto isn't saying "PS4, here we come!"
The Wii U failed primarily because of a lack of software. I was very excited about the system until E3 2012 when they basically revealed they had nothing coming for it except yet more Mario and a bunch of third party ports of games I already owned. It was like this for well over a year until Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Brothers finally started to expand the system's library. Tablets didn't cause the Wii U to fail; Launching a game system with no games did.
Well, I think their Wii U idea is to push asymmetric gameplay, hence the name Wii and U. Might be a mistake of their part as that didn't take off and left with an odd name. Now Nintendo have this gamepad that is pricey, but possibly couldn't get rid for the NX if they want to keep backward compatibility. Maybe they will start fresh with NX, I hope they will.
> Still hasn't made a real 3D Mario game
> Blames tablets
Sure.
The GamePad is awesome and very innovative, with a ton of potential. I just hoped for a lot of games to use asymmetrical multiplayer (two-player) gameplay.
Ever since I played Super Mario 64 as a kid, I had this wish that I could explore the castle and the levels with a friend on seperate screens (two different TVs, at that time), since we always had to take turns. Both players could be in different locations that way, which also opens up for plenty of other gameplay possibilites, such as hide-and-seek
Fortunately, the Wii U makes this option possible. Unfortunately, not many games make use of this. I'm still hopeful for a future 3D Mario (or Donkey Kong) game where you can play as Mario and Luigi with the use of this mechanic. C'mon Miyamoto, make my childhood dream come true
Okay is anyone still going to deny nx is the new home console?
Obviously when he talks affordability it should get people worried they're going to make a system that won't be very powerful. He does say if it's compelling enough people would buy it though. So who knows. Hopefully they learnt some lessons with the wiiu.
I like the gamepad.off tv play is very handy and I enjoy the games I've used it In.i don't think an onscreen mini map would be as effective in splatoon esp for the super jumps.as a big batman fan I really liked how it got used in Arkham city it felt really immersive to me.plus getting family members interested in bayonetta with the touch controls was pretty funny.
If the next hardware has a relatively standard controller then hopefully there'll be an optional gamepad type controller for games that do utilize dual screens and it can also double up as a gaming tablet to play nintendos mobile output on.
I just hope they don't drop the gamepad. Currently it is my favorite controller. It sucks they couldn't get costs down low enough to give themselves a margin. That explains why there hasn't been a significant price cut though (I still think the bundles are an amazing deal though).
Their earlier comments about the NX not replacing the Wii U seem emptier by the day.
Also the fact that so many people don't even know what a Wii U is. Practically anyone I talk to, they think I am talking about the Wii, and they haven't got a clue what the difference between Wii U and Wii is.
Maybe the sudden popularity of tablets pushed against the WiiU, but I'd say the lack of interesting features that gave the GamePad an innovative spin is much more at fault.
Also, gotta love the "they didn't understand it" excuse. The same was said about Metroid: Other M, and DmC: Devil May Cry, and in all three cases, it sounds like blame shift more than anything. People didn't understand? Guess who failed to properly explain it, then? Or make it better? I often blame consumers for the success of bad things, but in this case, something good was badly marketed - it's not the consumers' fault when something doesn't come off as interesting.
Even more evidence that NX is a home console!
I'm going to wait for Reggie's revised translation.
At least Nintendo didn't throw the gamepad over board and made one 180 turn after another just like Microsoft is doing. Wii U owners don't have to feel like they were screwed, there's just really no reason for. Maybe we didn't get so many games that used the gamepad features besides off-tv gameplay. But we got so many really, really great games with so much love to details. And that's what I'm thankful for.
People don't want innivation. They want a x86 powerhouse that can keep up with the others. With a normal controller. Devs will have alot easier time porting over things too which would be more cost friendly.
He didn't explicitly state that the mentioned nx is something like a homeconsole. He just wants whatever is next to be more successful.
Also interesting: VR is not inclusive and social enough in its current form, so yeah, that's no news. But what he says after is interesting. He says they're showing things you can play and buy in the near future, so that is why you are not seeing any virtual reality type of thing at e3 this year.
If they find a way to hololens gaming away from the tv, they've got a big hit on their hands.
@Moon I have the same concerns as you do.
More like the Wii stole Wii U's thunder, because everyone thought they already had one.
@Savino They probably started developing in 2006.
He seems such a nice man. His enthusiasm is so cute. I love WiiU personally! Dreading no incase it won't play wiiu or wii games
@adamatsu Isn't it good that everyone can afford the console? I, for one am poor and happy that Nintendo thinks about everyone.
@KillScottKill Nintendo's Consoles have 5/6 year release windows. that is the same amount of time they design/finalize the console. In 2010, they were already past the point of no return on their design of the console.
I personally dont want to see the gamepad go for the next console, I'd be happy to buy it as a peripheral, I just can't imagine gaming without off-tv play. Oh and they shouldnt include the name "Wii" in the next console like they did with the U, that will just confuse everyone.
Wii u - such a bad name. No one knows that is wii 2.
Well I'm glad that he admitted that they were wrong from the outset. Usually Nintendo doesn't fall on their sword like this. I bet they still think that online gaming will never catch on, which was their company line during the GameCube era...
But seriously, "tablets stole the Wii U's thunder..." Umm, excuse me, by the time the Wii U came to market iPads and other tablets were everywhere. What exactly did they expect?
Have to say, it may be a failure in console sales, but I have spent the most money on games for this console. That will also be true for the remainder of this year.
Wii U: Mario Maker, Star Fox, Yoshi WW, Xenoblade
PS4: Metal Gear Solid V
XBoxOne: Tomb Raider
While there is certainly a laundry list of reasons why the Wii U failed, the one that stands above all others is the lack of 3rd party AAA content. This sole thing led to a snow ball effect of other issues exposed.
I don't care if the NX sprouts wings and can fly; if there is no 3rd party retail support EXACTLY IN LINE with Sony and Microsoft's offerings then nothing else will really matter.
Nintendo has shown this gen they cannot sustain a system based off of their own 1st and 2nd party development alone.
I'm sure that tablets did affect interest in the Wii U, but Miyamoto's statement ignores the initial confusion over whether this was a new system or an accessory for the Wii as well as how few must-have games are out for the system after two-and-a-half years. On top of that, the features provided by the Wii U GamePad just haven't been utilised to their full potential in very many games. The whole "asymetrical gameplay" concept that was such a big selling point has barely even been touch upon.
I love my Wii U but I love only because I do own a PS4 and a New3DS too, so I can enjoy a lot of games.
I hope for something amazing and simple as the SNES and the N64.
Something "upgradeable" would be amazing too. Launch on par with PS4/Xone, but you can upgrade with "not so expensive" parts to make even more powerful!
the idea was novel, and its not that the execution was poor, but like Miyamoto said, it wasn't communicated well, it wasn't embraced by developers (even Nintendo didn't utilize it well enough), It was dated before it came out (I'm not talking about core power here), with tablets already old hat and tablet sales struggling to beat previous years. There's always next time, but until then, enjoy the actual games that are coming to Wii U, they're great!
@BinaryFragger but when Nintendo gives gamers more than just the core, gamers just have hissy fits and create change.org petitions to make themselves feel better. There is no pleasing the looney.
The sad thing is that they will probably leave the Gamepad behind now. I would love to have off-tv play on the next console as well. It really is the best feature on the Wii U.
Also, people I talk to still don't know what a Wii U is. Nintendo made a horrible job naming it and promoting it.
These have been the ingredients of the WiiU Failure
@Cia fair enough but in reality it'll be a console everyone can afford which isnt powerful enough to run multiplatform games..a problem Nintendo needs to solve to survive long term.
He is exactly right in his assessment. Just because he didn't explain all the factors doesn't mean what he is explaining isn't the case. He is still going on record publicly, as well, here. As frank as he sounds he's not going to just go on and on about all Nintendo's failures.
A tablet console was a great proposition if the whole world hadn't proliferated them so quickly and cheaply. I actually thought from the outset that they did hew too close to the tablet idea. The GamePad should have been more ergonomic as a controller first and still had all of it's features. The idea of laying it down flat to do some things or using it as a reading device melted away as a compelling feature as there were many other cheap ways for people to do that by the time it launched. Obvious for us to see now, but not when it was being developed. That made the branding a big issue. The marketing lost a lot of potential when the tablet angle fell flat.
Ticking off EA or whatever happened there was a huge factor as well. And they did incredible damage. Even if the public wasn't paying attention, other third parties were and that was that. Nintendo was left as the only one holding the paddle.
People discount it, but the game play in Nintendo Land did a fabulous job of showing the potential of the GamePad. Unfortunately the theme and look of that game I think turned people right off of it and people didn't give it a chance. I was won over by the asynchronous play immediately with my family and everyone I showed it to and played it with had a riotous time. With Nintendo Land alone. Problem is it looked like the the most infamous problem with the wii for gamers: a mini-game compilation that had some weird frankenstein graphics that people didn't relate to. I've grown to enjoy the look and theme, but it was just so weird.
A lot of people pinpoint the marketing problems on the name, but I think the name Wii U, specifically, could have been easily overcome if the other factors weren't there. If it had something people understood and wanted that was easily shown and exciting with tons of third-party support you could have called it anything really.
As for people saying Nintendo should support third parties. Something went sour early on. EA was on board, promoting the features of the GamePad talking about an unprecedented relationship, then... crickets. When it wasn't an immediate hit, EA went official on non-support and everyone else packed up their bags quick to focus on the other upcoming consoles. Ubisoft remained but did it's own PR damage.
Nintendo actually paid for original third-party games and is publishing them. Nintendo did a lot in this space and was winning the indie battle for a short time there. Whatever they did to shoot themselves in the foot — and I think it was to deny EA too much control with what DeNA is helping Nintendo with now but in the form of an Origin account system — led to a double leg amputation it seems.
Well I'm glad to see that they are admitting part of what went wrong, but really there were just so many things against the Wii U. Most of it was Nintendo's fault:
Ironically, it sold rather well on the Wii U, and if they had gone through with it, it probably would have sold ok. Not great, but pretty good. The last I heard, it actually sold better than the 360 version.
There's still some people out there who believe the NX is still far away claiming that Zelda U will be it's savior. I used to believe that a 2017-18 date was likely, but the NX is looming closer. Zelda will be ported to NX with a duel release on Wii U, just like Twilight Princess. Nintendo has shown that they will not burn a Zelda on a failing console. There is nothing coming in 2016, all reminiscent of a console winding down. Reggie even had that weird "transformation" line in the Digital Event, while also mentioning the NX. If the Wii U was still a priority, why would he even mention the NX, which isn't even it's real name yet?!
Most of the people on here see this easily, but I've had countless arguments with the blind followers on Miiverse who clap every time Nintendo says something. I've even gotten a person to block me, because he just didn't want to hear it/believe it. That's fine, if you want to believe this blindly, but Nintendo has shown that there's nothing left of the Wii U after 2015-16.
I love the console, despite it's stupid gimmicks, but yeah we got burned here. Nintendo is going to have to offer something major with the NX and compensate Wii U owners in order for us to not abandon the company entirely. Your move Nintendo.
Sorry folks that was a little windy, but if I missed anything please feel free to add to it.
@Pupito
That might have worked for you, but you are talking about even less support for the GamePad in your scenario. Why even bother with it, in that case. I'm glad we got it and I still love it. Whatever comes next, if there is no second screen, I'm going to miss it.
@BinaryFragger
Sad, isn't it? Nintendo knew this. They intended to position that Wii U in the gap and get the third-party games for a few years there while the other consoles transitioned. That initial announcement was thick with optimism on this front and I think it was for good reason. I really am curious what happened. I hope it leaks out one day with a nice detailed account from both sides.
You know what's good about this, though. Nintendo knew this then, and they know it now. They aren't going forward without a plan to woo third-parties again.
So, NX comes along. Will it support the GamePad. Will it be backwards compatible? I think Nintendo has warned that either the 3DS or the Wii U are probably going to lack backwards compatibility in their next generation. There was a hardware rumor report that Nintendo was pushing hard for compatibility of Wii U going forward... again if memory serves me.
Thing is, the NX would do well to have Mario Kart 8, SSBU and Splatoon out of the gate for those that never took the plunge on the Wii U, right?
Maybe the console supports the GamePad as an option? Buying one gets you backwards compatibility with Wii U?
No solution seems ideal. I mean if NX is a new console targeted at 2016 Holiday season, Nintendo needs games within a year. If it could carry those three over in some solid way, it would do a lot to help make it compelling. I constantly see comments from the outside the nintendo-fan-sphere that long after some of those games but are unwilling to buy a Wii U for them. They could be part of what many would consider a strong launch library.
I've always wondered how Nintendo would do if they ignored "innovation" and just focused on raw horsepower. SNES was technologically superior except for processing, and GameCube was moderately successful compared with the WiiU
@Mona-Reggie
Sadly, at this point, their development teams don't seem to be ramped up to supporting a raw horsepower competitor. I hear you, though, and the dev teams have grown and Nintendo has been championing these strong partnerships to good effect, in my mind.
I expect (hope?) that whatever new idea comes in the NX (if it's a console) will be an inexpensive addition to a console that is close to on-par with PS4 and XB1. That still puts it a bit behind but a good place for third parties to target (if they can nail ease of development and similar hardware).
@Fazermint
"> Still hasn't made a real 3D Mario game"
Yes, because a real 3D Mario game will magically quadruple the sales of the Wii U. -_-
Don't get me wrong; I'd also love a 'real 3D Mario game,' but the norm is that 3D Marios don't really sell well. Besides, I still have to completely clear 3D World XD
I have to respectfully disagree with Miyamoto. What brought down the Wii U? Severe lack of advertising... and probably the lack of games in the beginning of the Wii U's life. The 3DS(and PS4) has proved that tablets mean nothing when it comes to dedicated gaming systems. Whatever your next system is, Nintendo... bombard it in my face. ADVERTISE!!!
@aaronsullivan
Well those games shouldn't be too hard to have some backwards compatibility, Mk8 and SSB don't really use the ganepad so those games could probably have virtual downloads available at the very least. Not sure about splatoon. Maybe the classic controller Wii concoction
@Pupito
The problem with fully optional peripherals is they get little to no support. Nintendo Land was wholly dependent on the GamePad. Splatoon is (kind of). Rayman is. Kirby and the Rainbow Curse is, Super Mario Maker is, Art Academy is, parts of many other games are. Some great indie games are (like Affordable Space Adventures).
If it wasn't included in every console purchase many of those games just wouldn't exist or wouldn't support the GamePad in my estimation.
Not disagreeing on the problems you are bringing up, just the solutions.
Yeah, I want NX support for GamePad, too and I don't even know what it is. lol. If Nintendo would bring out a reimagined and improved GamePad (battery, improved screen, better ergonomics) I'd buy it again anyway.
No, it's not. It's because you couldn't make it stand out. You've almost completely failed to show what make the gamepad cool in practice. You showed lots of promise and potential at the Wii U reveal, you haven't managed to make something half as good. Your first attempt to even seriously try I'd with Starfox. Before you've just flat-out completely ignored it at times. Tablets didn't make it not special, you did. You also didn't make enough games for the Wii U. You're way behind there, and has the job to make up for the lack of third-party. So all in all, stop making stupid excuses when you clearly have just failed on multiple levels.
I'm glad Nintendo is finally saying the Wii U was a failure. It gives me hope that Nintendo will start to listen to fans more and make the NX a wonderful system to have. Here's hoping the NX will have an amazing start.
"but maintained that affordability and innovative remain Nintendo's primary goals"
Hope "affordability" doesn't mean having a weaker system than their competitors...again.........
@Jaz007 Miyamoto is partly saying that they couldn't make it stand out. Just like you are. He is giving the reason why. It didn't look as impressive in practice because so many people were already using their tablets for things Nintendo thought they'd be able to stand out with. A tablet for everybody that is also dedicated to gaming. They didn't think tablets would spread as quickly as they did.
You make it sound like making enough games to make up for lack of third parties isn't a multi-year complete reworking of the company with results taking years to show.
The Wii U's biggest problem was it image coming right of the bat with the Wii Nintendo decided to not play it safe and instead took a risk on the Gamepad and built the console around the Gamepad and it's unique features which is why it cannot be dropped without overhualing the OS.
Also people associated the Wii brand with what the dude bro gamers refer to as filthy casuals which hurt the systems hardcore appeal so even if you called it the Super Wii or the Wii 2 it still has the Wii brand on it and that hurt the system's image.
As for the advertising part well that's their fault that they didn't communicate the appeal of the system to a wider audience but I think they could have spent a bit more on advertising their systems and the games coming it but hey we cannot have everything.
Now for the games, I believe that a balanced approach is needed when it comes to releasing software on their systems and if the NX is hybrid system then they should have software droughts sorted. But they need to spend time developing their big hitters and have loads of smaller dev teams make smaller E-Shop style game that can be released via retail, these games would not take so long to develop and the budgets can be kept low to decrease the financial risk of these games flopping.
That way when their big hitters come out people can see that there is are plenty games not available anyway else that would tempt them to buy a couple with their big hitters that they would purchase on that day and who knows these small games might become big franchises one day.
@MikeW I'd bet it will be on-par with PS4 at best on a performance level.
For those that are thinking it will be a fusion of handheld and console what they are proposing damns it to be on-par with Wii U at best. Though I'm sure their imagination doesn't see it that way.
I'd be shocked at anything else. But I don't mind be shocked in a positive way.
First comment is exactly what I thought when I read it. Miyamoto is honest, everyone flames him. I think the price point is the real issue. Consumer expectations for technology costs are demanding these days. If you're going to go with bubbly shiny plastic, you're going to need to be at bargain level prices. If you are going above $300 these days, you need to have hardware that is thin, sleek, and makes your friends think you're cool. I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, but it's the way of the world these days.
And here's a prediction that I will write in all-caps so that all the people with PS4 envy stop whining about the "power" of Nintendo consoles: NX WILL NOT BE A SUPER POWERFUL CONSOLE. FOR JEEBUS SAKES GO BUY A PC AND QUIT WHINING ABOUT POWER.
The 3DS is not a power house, but it is well-supported, and may be the best platform since SNES in terms of game quality. Most people don't care that it has less processing power than your iPhone because it's great hardware at a mostly reasonable price and there are a ridiculous number of good games for it. I am so. fraaking. sick of the power whiners. It's never gonna happen, guys. If you want your friends to think you're cool, or if your favorite game is "count the polygons," by all means, stop buying Nintendo, and quit littering comment forums with your Playstation envy.
Sorry for the rant. It's just that we've been through this so many times.
@ZurrrrBlattTron Stop. There are 20+ great games at retail for the WiiU. Plus dozens upon dozens of great eshop games. I have 40-50 games for my WiiU between retail and eshop titles.
Doesn't have games. Good grief...
@CreativeWelshman
It is interesting how the timing of Wii's demise and Wii U is right when mobile gaming was emerging as a threat to "true gamers". It did help make the Wii U look like it was on the wrong side of that fence.
That is starting to sway now. I think gamers are getting more sophisticated in their understanding of "casual" gaming. I mean, for those who have a smart phone, who doesn't like to play some short bursts of fun games every once in a while.
It will be a huge shame if they drop the second screen for the next console. The GamePad adds so much to gaming, and I had so some of my best gaming experiences enjoying the awesomeness of the GamePad features in games like ZombiU, Arkham City, Mass Effect 3, Lego City, Deux Ex, Windwaker and so on. Not to mention some great indies. Playing on gamepad with some TV action and switching to TV anytime you want is huge, hard to go back now after this revolution.
@Pupito "4) Off screen TV should have been the central marketing focus for the Super Wii Gamepad."
Absolutely... I have sold several WiiU's to friends and families after explaining this feature... it's the best thing to happen to video games in a long time... If games happen to make use of the gamepad for other functions, even if it's just inventory management or a map... great!
If the PS4 had an optional "gamepad" device for $150... I would buy it immediately, right along with the console. I was hoping the Vita would work like the gamepad... but no.
@XCWarrior Agreed. I look at the library I have and the amount of time we, as a family have to play games and this thing is going to last me through another year at least if we don't buy any more games.
@CreativeWelshman
In addition to what you are saying about balanced games, I just want to mention that even if the next hardware device is not literally "hybrid", the development platform is already unified behind the scenes. It is done, that's officially confirmed. So we will be getting many more easily ported games for both handheld and console if they are separate — even if heavily refocused for each. Nintendo could have really, really used this during the 3DS and Wii U generation we are in. Really. lol.
"Although he didn't say much about the Wii U's successor, the Nintendo NX, Miyamoto did state that he had high hopes for the platform - but maintained that affordability and innovative remain Nintendo's primary goals."
That's pretty much all I expected out of Nintendo in my entire gaming career. The branding never mattered to me. People who judge the system based on that alone are vapid and shallow. The PS4 and XBO are great, powerful pieces of hardware, sure, but the games have always been underwhelming. Playing games on those now still feel like playing them on the PS2 and Xbox, save for social and streaming features.
The Wii U may be lacking, as is indicated from laziness of turd-party developers who refuse to master the infrastructure of the system and perpetuate this stream of lack of quality games, but the games have always defined the company best. Nintendo has always had the best games, and with the release of Splatoon adds one more genre that they've effectively perfected.
Whether or not the Wii U is a failure in the end doesn't matter to me. After 20 years of experiencing a vast array of all gaming has to offer, I've developed a keen eye for quality gaming products. I don't usually back something technological without seeing the potential in the hardware. It's why I favor the Wii U's hardware for what it has the potential to do for games more than VR and AR headsets (Admit it, Microsoft. Hololens is augmented-reality), and I will back it until the end of this generation.
After what happened with Wii U, I ain't buying another Nintendo home console at launch. I'll be waiting a few years before getting the NX if it's a home console, and only if any games truly catch my attention and once the price has dropped significantly. I'm already pretty sure that even if it releases in 2017, it'll still be weaker than my PC with parts from 2013/2014. Meaning third party support will be welcome, but not my main reason for buying (though I still think massive 3rd party support will be needed for NX to survive).
@Pupito Do you see my point though? If the GamePad was not the primary feature of the Wii U at launch, there would be no Nintendo Land. Probably it would have been that Wario game at best as a pack-in with the GamePad and then little token features here and there throughout the life of the Wii U. Much less than what we got, and you can forget Zombie U, and any other third-party support like in Rayman Legends, Affordable Space Adventures. It just wouldn't have been worth it for a fraction of the Wii U audience.
Not saying it wouldn't have sold a ton more Wii U consoles at a lower price point, but then, what would the compelling feature have been? The lower price?
There is no chance of Nintendo's next home console not allowing people to play MK8 and Smash immediately out of the box... they have way too much development time and money invested into those games to start making a new one...
@aaronsullivan
By balanced and hybrid I meant something like this, year 1 launch window 2 big games and 8-10 smaller games all developed in house by Nintendo without any 3rd party support then for the rest of the year and going into year 2.
They can then release more smaller games to sate the appetite of gamer's while hyping their next set of big hitters which could be Smash or Mario Kart 9 while enjoying the steady software sales over the year and if they play their cards right then the 3rd parties will come along begging for forgiveness from the Nintendo fanbase.
This is method that they can use to basically sort out the software droughts and for the hybrid and how that will play a big part in this theoy of mine just look at this infographic again tell me how many exclusive Nintendo games are coming out this year alone compared to the competition.
http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2015/06/nintendo_e3_roadmap_infographic_shows_off_upcoming_releases_on_wii_u_and_3ds/attachment/0/original.jpg
The Gamepad should have been dropped much like Microsoft did with Kinect early in the Xbox One's lifespan. That extra processing power and going back to flesh out concepts based around the Wii motion controls would have been better to me. Skyward Sword's control won't be seen again in a Zelda game? A new Metroid won't have pointer controls? What was the point of innovating to make those game's better if you go and do somethign that brings the franchise back. Pikmin 3 controlled far better with the Wii Remote than the Gamepad. Just seems like Nintendo's old guard really dropped the ball and the confidence is waning among the shareholders and fans.
I'll add that lauching the Wii U with 3rd party games that were 6 to 18 months old, and expecting consumers to get excited about that, was a very poorly thought out launch idea. It contributed to the consumer lack of interest after the Xmas launch and in a vicious cycle, helped seal the deal for ever less 3rd party titles down the road. You contribute this problem with ZERO sports games of any value and you have left out a sizable chunk of the gaming population from the Wii U.
I think if it didn't have the word Wii in the name, it'd be more popular.
@MoonKnight7 #99 Great Analysis! Cheers
Nintendo and the Wii U don't have ONE big problem, they have MULTIPLE big problems. Being underpowered, having no third parties, still not having basic current gen features, prehistoric online, lack of new IPs, unwillingness to use the money they earned, not having enough manpower. It's not just one, it's many.
In this case they're blaming tablets for some reason without really knowing anything. Know what you are and know what you aren't. You are a video game company not a tablet company. People buy tablets like iPads for the brand, if not they buy it for the Media, like watching movies on the go, listening to music. If you want to sell tablets, make a freaking tablet. Simple as that.
Enough of the "innovation" crap and the "new ways to play", go back to what you do best, making great games. Enough of this forced gimmick crap that has been plaguing Nintendo since the Wii days. In that regard, the Wii U is an absolute failure. It outright failed to prove to me how the GamePad is an innovative feature that is needed in controllers. The best games on the Wii U don't make use of the gamepad and the ones that do like ZombiU can also be done without the gamepad since it's coming to PS4 and Xbox One. I've yet to understand how I need this stupid tablet controller.
Not only that but these "innovations" keep developers like Miyamoto on focusing on the aspect of games fans care most about: fun. These days, the games Nintendo makes have these pointless sections where you have to use the controller's new features and it feels soooooo forced. You take a look at their past games and that wasn't a problem. The mechanics felt natural but now, most of the time they feel forced. Should focus more on making great experiences that are remembered 10 years from now and are fun than forceful test demos for the controller.
And then somehow, someway, the developers are being called "lazy" for not wanting to develop games around such gimmicks. Umm, it's their choice? They are not and should not be obligated to follow Nintendo and their stubbornness. And this is a bad thing. If we can get anything out of this year's E3 it's that Nintendo does not have many games in store, had they had the power and the third parties, we'd be seeing Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, Mass Effect, etc. It's a huge problem because, moving forward from here, games are gonna take longer to make, games are gonna take more people to make and if you can't pump out enough games, especially games people care for, none of that Metroid Prime Federation Farce or Animal Crossing Mario Party Edition, you are going to lose more and more fans.
So, better get your engine together, stop playing it safe, make use of your money, embrace third party developers, embrace a much more simpler controller, improve online infrastructure, get on with the standards and make the games your fans want to see.
Drop the Wii U in price and bring back digital rewards like when MK8 launched. At this point in the consoles' life cycle, people have too much to compare it to. They can buy a cheap tablet from Samsung, LG or a lower priced iPad. Also, when Xbox 1 dropped to $349, a $299 Wii U felt steep. If Mr. M is openly talking about the price like this, I would expect Nintendo is actively talking about a price drop for the last 2 years of the console. Even though the NX is openly talked about, it wont be on the market until Xmas 2016 or early 2017. It also wont have a stacked library of games like MK8, SSMBU, SMW3D and so on. I think you could convince a lot of PS4/XB1 to pick up the Wii U as their second console if it were significantly dropped. If the standard Wii U with 2 games (SM3DW or NSMBU) were dropped to the $250 range, I bet a lot of people would start to pick one up. That would start to feel like an affordable second option with an amazing library of games. As the PS4 and XB1 get more exclusives and elite games on their system, the Wii U will only suffer more. Start the price drop at Xmas and watch the consoles fly off the shelves. Think back to the 3DS XL launch. It was something stupid like $250 in Canada and people laughed at Nintendo. It was the same price as a console. Nintendo changed course and went with the now standard $199 and the system sold tens of millions of units. The gamepad does not make the Wii U special as virtually no games "need" it for game play. It's just a bulk tablet and there are far superior ones in design, price and functionality on the market. Get people to focus on the cheap price and software.
The gamepad is not a tablet... it's a TV screen built right into the controller.
I wouldn't underestimate that the "Hardcore Nintendo fanbase" is getting thinner... A lot of new "gamers" are not attracted to Mario as we were at our time (talking about the 90's here), they got their own "videogames heroes", they generally play online games and more visually "adult" ones.... they meet with friends playing FIFA and NBA....
And with the WiiU, there is absolutely nothing like that.... now, even Call of Duty isn't ported anymore....
@earthboundlink
Thanks for agreeing dude
@EngieBengie
So you want Nintendo to do what everyone else is doing which is make boring games that look and play the safe and just act as the middle child who gets ignored all the time? Hell no Nintendo is Nintendo if they started doing what you wanted them to do now then by the time they get around to showing the fruits of their labor to us people would just say "We don't need your kiddy console cuz we haz Xbox and PS for C.O.D and Football game thing".
The biggest failure of the Wii U was not the price but the storage and online functionality. I think they looked to the Xbox 360 S model with 4 GB onboard and thought it would be enough, not realizing it was a console near the end of it's life. 4 GB was okay (especially when usb Flash drives could be used) for 2010, but not for moving forward.
The online issues have been well documented. From account management to online interaction, Nintendo has been behind the curve and stubbornly refuses to move forward.
@CreativeWelshman #144 "So you want Nintendo to do what everyone else is doing which is make boring games that look and play the safe and just act as the middle child who gets ignored all the time?"
This legend that Nintendo is the paladin against the "boring and safe games from others" has to stop. It is simply not true. Since years now... Ever heard of Tearaway? Little Big Planet? Tomorrow Children? Sunset Overdrive? No man Sky??? And also, many game gendra are evolved becoming more complex and deep....
To me, it seems Nintendo liked the most to play it safe, having done another 2d mario, another Mario Kart, another Smash Bro, a remastered, another donkey Kong.... They are reusing the same stuff on and on.... great quality, yes, but in this way you just keep the fanbase that love jumping your platforms since the 80's.... you don't get any new users... It sound old fashion to the eyes of the new generations... and alone, with the "aficionados" fanbase, Nintendo simply has not the number to survive.... they have to innovate and go forward more then Sony and Microsoft.... the latters are already light years ahead, in term of variety, gameplay, multiplayer support....
@CreativeWelshman Umm yeah. Because them being unique makes them automatically good or better than the others? No. You don't seem to be an owner of either consoles or seemed to have payed attention to Sony and Microsoft's E3 Press conference. Might be wrong but you seem to. The PS4 and Xbox One had a slow launch. Know who else had a slow launch? Nintendo. And you know something bout Nintendo? They still. have. droughts. Meanwhile the PS4 is getting all the big games like Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, Final Fantasy, hell, Shenmue 3, Black Ops 3 so on. Same for the Xbox one. Currently, the Witcher 3 has 92 on Metacritic, Arkham Knight 91, Bloodborne (PS4) 91. What Nintendo game that came out this year has gotten a score in the 90s. I'm not saying score matters but what these scores say is that these are darn great games. And then the classic "PS and Xbox players only play Cod and football". Where do I even begin with this asinine statement?
If one more person complains that Nintendo lacks IPs, or even new IPs, I swear I'm going to personally break the Internet. That assertion is false. Outright false. Nintendo has probably created more new IPs this hardware generation alone than most companies ever develop during their entire existence. Everyone who repeats the "lack of new IPs" argument is a troll.
You can lament that the market did this or that but it doesn't really matter if you failed to act upon what you COULD control. And by that I mean Nintendo never really TRIED to utilize the GamePad in ways that frankly made common sense.
Take turn-based Strategy, for example, specifically local hot seat multiplayer. So far it's been a genre restricted almost exclusively to PCs, and tablets can't offer the right experience unless everyone in the room has one and their own copy of the game (unlikely). It's not difficult at all (unless you're a Nintendo game developer, apparently) to envision a new Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, or third-party IP such as Shining Force or Daisenryaku with incredible hot seat multiplayer modes.
The Wii U has had some great games, but it has never felt its full potential has ever been realized. I fear that's how it's going to be remembered when all is sadi and done, and that's all on Nintendo who designed it around the GamePad in the first place.
@Project_Dolphin They do make great games but not as great as what they used to do. Barely a handful of truly great games have come out. These days, they are making their games easy as hell, Zelda games can't for the life of them let the player explore on their own, Mario games seem to just give you godmode for dying to much, Splatoon doesn't have basic features and the use of Amiibos is intolerable. They still do make great games but it seems like every new game has its own big problem while back then Nintendo pumped out masterpiece after masterpiece. And games like Animal Crossing Mario Party Edition, Metroid Federation Farce make me feel pessimistic about Nintendo's future. Hell, Star Fox Zero didn't impress me that much, it just seems like they've taken Star Fox 64 3D and made it HD.
The Wii U worked really well for me and I have no regrets owning one. Nintendo has made a lot of great games for it and because of where I am in life I really am backlogged and I cannot even afford to play all of the games available due to time and money constraints. My family has spent many hours playing it together. At the end of the day my wife and I don't have to fight over the T.V. if she wants to watch a show I am not interested in. I can easily find a game to play on the Wii U game pad and still be in the same room as her. I really hope the game pad stays for the next generation. I would definitely miss it.
How can the company that released the NDS be surprised by competition from tablets? The only reason I don't own a tablet is they haven't changed much in the last 8 years unless you're willing to settle for running iOS or android.
@Project_Dolphin True but Metacritic isn't an aggregation of user scores, only an aggregation of media scores. Not to mention the user scores on this site is basically "it's good: 10/10, it's bad 1/10". I get what you are trying to get at but reliability is important. Metacritic user scores aren't very reliable because of that.
I love the Wii U but Nintendo dropped the ball for years. Lazing around on Wii doing sweet fa apart from release the odd top notch game amongst lots of filler - many gamers lost interest and alot of their long term fans moved on.
Nintendo left it too late to take advantage of the Wiis branding and released an underpowered, heavily overpriced and unpromoted system with no good games expecting it to sell with only a year to the PS4's release.
If Mario 3D World or Mario Kart were launch games and the system was ready at launch they might have had a chance. BUT NO. Cocky Nintendo couldn't get that right.
The buggy, slow OS and overpriced EShop, low quality 3rd party ports with next to no VC hit it hard.
Splatoon, Codename STEAM, Dillon, Pushmo, Steel Diver, Wonderful 101, Tomodachi Life, Harmoknight, Rusty's Real Deal Baseball, Sakura Samurai, Box Boy, Tokyo Crash Mobs, all brand new IPs created during the 3DS/Wii U generation. That doesn't even include revived IPs like Kid Icarus or Bayonetta (I know Bayonetta is not necessarily a Nintendo IP, but Nintendo published it and brought the sequel into existence; they also published Bravely Default in the west, so you have them to thank for playing IPs that they didn't even create). And we don't even need to discuss the absolutely massive stable of existing IPs from previous generations, from Donkey Kong to Xenoblade, and dozens in between.
I'm not saying Nintendo is without fault. I'm just saying that I'm really sick of people arguing Nintendo never makes new IPs.
What thunder? They barely even marketed the thing and made so many other mistakes like the name and the stupid Basic model that they overproduced. This thing had fail written all over it the moment it was announced 4 years ago to the point I felt physically ill just watching their 2011 E3 conference.
@Yorumi I feel the same about Nintendo's Gimmicks. They wear off so so quickly. If you look at any of their recent consoles, the games we remember fondly are not the gimmicky ones. For the great stuff on 3DS you don't need 3D (or even the touchscreen in most cases), for the great stuff on WiiU you don't need the Gamepad and I actually think Mario Galaxy would have been even better with a normal controller.
I disagree with the tablets stealing the WiiUs thunder being BS though. It was my first though when they announced the concept at E3 a couple of years ago. "Your're 3 years late, Nintendo". In 2007 this would have been amazing to customers. The gimmick still would have worn off quickly but way more people would have bought it.
@Kaze_Memaryu - "Also, gotta love the "they didn't understand it" excuse."
While you were writing this, I was writing the same thing about some Sony big wig talking about how consumers didn't understand the Vita.
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2015/06/sony_playstation_tv_is_hard_to_explain
It's always the consumers fault, we're all idiots.
@Yorumi Yeah, I totally feel you. They can't get off the idea that it's "fun" to have all those experiments that kinda work but not really. To me Nintendo has recently felt like those directors who talk about 3D in movies all the time. "We want to bring the audiences into the movie...they have to be sucked in!!" Yeah, you know what. Make a movie that sucks me in with its story and characters and THEN we can talk about adding gimmicks. Same with Nintendo. Do the basics right and then maybe add your stuff...but Star Fox shows again that the gimmick is front and center...
@aaronsullivan - Wii U
I happen to really like the Wii U name, Wii (we) play together on the tv screen, U (you) play by yourself on the Gamepad screen. It's so simple anybody can get it. But of course you do have to explain it to people before the lightbulbs go off. I don't think Ntineod did a very good job of explaining U = You. In retrospect, Wii HD or even Wii 2 might have been better. It was at the time most people were either in the market for or had just purchased an HD tv so I think people would have understood the HD part. Of course there are a lot of "in retrospect" regarding Wii U.
Like, while a separate Gamepad may have fragmented the market even further, it may have worked out better in the long run. Sell Wii HD or Wii 2 w/ the pro for $299. Sell Gamepad for $100 w/ Ninnteod Land. Wii gets a better install base, then 2 years later when Spalton and Starfox come out you can sell more Gmaepads. Do you know how many $80 Wii balance boards sold for just 1 game, Wii Fit? Lots. Sapltoon and Starfox would have been a nice 1-2 punch. Maybe WW HD woudl sell a few earlier on. But really, Ninteod sacfificed the entire Wii U for the Gamepad's inclusion, can you rally say i twas worth including it?
I don't agree w/ anyone who says they should have taken it out like Kinect 2.0 after 6 months or a year, what's done is done, but knowing what they know now, going back in time I think they would really have to rethink the packed in strategy and hope they sell more Wii HD and other games and less Gamepads. B/c in retrospect bundled Gmaepad seems like a bad idea.
"...we're hoping that [the NX] will be a very big hit..."
Hope? XD XD XD What kind of business plan is that? LOL Ahhhh, Nintendo, Nintendo...
"...but maintained that affordability and innovative remain Nintendo's primary goals..."
Those two terms "affordability" and "innovative" already have me squeamish about the NX. In terms of 21st century HD gaming, the Wii U's asking price of $250USD is hardly wallet-breaking (compared to the competition). Anything more "affordable" than $250 and the hardware will definitely suffer and be even more antiquated than the last-gen tech Nintendo already tends to build their systems on. And for the love of everything, I'm sick of Nintendo and their goofy experiments and "innovation": just make some bleeding games, get third-parties on-board, and stop relying on Mario and Zelda to carry the ENTIRE brand. Nintendo needs to leave their toy focus behind and move on.
@CreativeWelshman they are not being honest, it failed because of terrible marketing, being under-powered, difficul to develop for and no third party support.. also "truthful and honest" are the same thing.
Can you believe this guy? HAHAHAHAHA
Wii U should have arrived back when we had no tablets in the market. They waited too long (as always).
Maybe Shigeru isn't the genious we always thought he was...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulb1CTV6F2I
The name and marketing wasn't great for the Wii U at all. The gamepad is a nice feature and even if games haven't taken full advantage of it (Affordable Space Adventures being one that truly did) having the map etc right there is really handy.
Nintendo should have had Bluray/DVD functionality with off screen viewing as well, it's a small thing but it would be another feature.
Anyone expecting Nintendo to try to compete against Sony & MS is dreaming. Nintendo won't do that and shouldn't. At this point PS4/XB1 are in a Coke/Pepsi situation and adding a third that is just like them would just be white noise. Nintendo will continue to do the unexpected, that's how they operate.
Deflect the blame... The game is obviously over for the WiiU.
There's multiple reasons why the Wii U didn't catch on- but the main one has to be poor marketing. " I think with Wii U, our challenge was that perhaps people didn't understand the system." Nintendo didn't explain its value proposition- and then overall simply did not spread the word about the system in general.
Sadly, I think there's a lot of people who would love a Wii U. They just don't know about the system- or what the system is capable of. If it weren't for the gamepad, I probably would have just passed on the system all together. I hadn't owned a home console since the SNES and then it would have just been another video game system for me.
The only reason I thought about getting the system in the first place was b/c I thought my step son's dad was giving him a "new wii." I thought it was the Wii U, but it was just a Wii. So, the more I looked into it, the more I wanted one. The thing that held me back was the lack of games- so I waited until April. I had a fair number of games to play through the summer, but things got a little stale until Pikmin, Rayman and W101 released. By then, it had lost any momentum from launch- and people were getting hyped over the Xbone and Ps4.
They should have had more available right after launch. I like NSMBU- but it was pretty underwhelming for selling a new system. Super Mario 3d World would have turned more heads. They should have launched with this and shortly thereafter DKTF and had NSMBU launch in Feb. 2014. Then had MK8 ready for Christmas, Splatoon ready last summer etc.
@Project_Dolphin No it's not. That's exactly the point. Look at Horizon: Zero Dawn. This doesn't look like there is some Gimmick to the gameplay and it still feels totally fresh. I'm not saying you can't have new gameplay elements but that's not what Nintendo is about anymore. Mario Sunshine had a new Gameplay Element. That's different than a tacked on Gimmick...
@rjejr Haha, it's quite popular! Man, we sure are dumb, being consumers and all... ^_^"'
Even if you completely ignore the tablet market, the Wii U isn't that different conceptually from the DS/3DS and they never really demonstrated its usefulness with a killer app, so I'd say that being too similar to tablets is the least of their problems.
@CreativeWelshman It goes something like this...
I posted this on IGN the other day but here's one of my ideas for what I think Nintendo's NX could be:
Note: Be patient and read all the details—I promise there's some good stuff here—and let me know what you think.
First: Think of the NX as basically being the Wii U console stuffed directly into the current Wii U GamePad (either pretty much exactly the same power as a Wii U or a little bit more powerful if necessary). The main differences would be making the screen at least 1080p; 3D without glasses; adding multi-touch to the screen, which would work with both the stylus and multiple fingers; and possibly adding analog to the triggers (not the shoulder buttons; just the triggers). Everything else would pretty much stay the same. It still supports amiibos too. Oh; there'd also be a tiny dongle you can plug into your TV so you can play the games directly on the big screen too. That's basically the NX.
All the cool stuff is in the details however...
Right out the gate, you could basically emulate/play digital versions of old NES, SNES, N64, GC, GB, GBC and GBA games pretty much straight-up directly on the system, which you'd download and/or stream from the new connected service Nintendo is developing.
To run Wii games you'd download them like all the other games and for any of them that use full motion/pointer controls you would use a proper Wiimote by pointing it at the sensor bar and/or camera that's built into the NX (this is already built into the current GamePad and would be on NX too), and you could either stream the game to the TV or view it directly on the GamePad (a bit small and awkward but still possible). So for some Wii games you would need to own/buy actual Wiimotes but that's not really surprising. At least you don't have to own/plug-in a separate sensor bar.
For DS/3DS the 1080p screen would be used to recreate/mimic the two-screen DS/3DS setup directly on the NX screen and because of the size and resolution it would pretty much be just like looking at a normal size DS/3DS (regular; not XL/LL). The fact the NX screen would be both 3D without glasses and touch capable means it could mimic all aspect of the DS/3DS on that single screen. A lot of this would also be done in firmware/software, so it all displays correctly. If you want you could also stream the top screen to the TV, or use any other screen variation/setup that's currently available for running DS games on Wii U now. The 3D no-glasses could even be used to emulate the Virtual Boy system too
See how the 2DS screen in this image could basically fit into the current GamePad (both screens at once):
(With a screen that has a 1080p resolution, along with glasses free 3D, you could basically emulate a DS/3DS directly on the GamePad-esque NX no problem, but there would also be many other display configurations available to choose from too, as is already the case with current DS games running on the Wii U GamePad)
To run Wii U games it would simply do what the current Wii U and GamePad do; with the main game content being displayed on the TV, streamed via the dongle, and all the map and touch screen stuff or whatever on the NX screen. Obviously any games that have off-TV play could similarly be played just directly on the NX, like they are now when played directly on the Wii U GamePad.
The new NX would also be compatible directly with the current Wii U and could be used as a secondary GamePad (or third and forth too), which will be a feature that will be activated on Wii U via a firmware update that adds in all the new Nintendo network stuff, this whole "connected" system, and a few other things. Because the NX is obviously able to connect to other NX systems for multi-player games (say up to four at a time), you would also similarly be able to use up to three of them with the Wii U now too; allowing you to play four player games on Wii U, where one person uses the Wii U GamePad and three other people use NX systems, so each person could have a custom screen but at the same time the TV could display another view of the action. Think of a Madden type game where each player can call plays on their controller in secret by drawing on the screen, with the main action on the TV. Or something like 4 player local multi-player Splatoon, with each person playing on either the GamePad or an NX controller and the TV showing an overview of the map. Because the NX systems are basically self contained Wii U consoles, it wouldn't take much processing power for the main Wii U to handle a four player game like this (unlike now where it would basically be impossible to have 4 GamePads on Wii U), since each system is basically a Wii U in and of itself and would be doing its equal share of the leg work. The whole Wii U/NX/TV setup where you have three NX systems plus the Wii U is obviously a very rare scenario as most gamers would just use four NX systems for multi-player but for anyone that already owns a Wii U it means they can use it in place of another NX system, which is a nice bonus, and it means they now have the ability to play new multi-player games on Wii U where each person actually has a proper private screen (poker and Scrabble would be fun, with the cards or letters shown on the individual player's screens and the main deck or board shown on the TV).
Nintendo would now of course be able to make plenty of games that take advantage of more than just asymmetric local multi-player by default—these would just be regular multi-player portable games for NX, that allow you to link to other people online or near you with NX systems, but at the same time because the NX is in fact just a Wii U built into a GamePad, you could play those very same games as multi-player games on current Wii U, using the Wii U and the GamePad as one controller, with a private screen, and up to 3 NX systems as the other controllers with private screens.
NOW...as a little aside here, and something that I think would basically tip this over the edge and turn it from amazing into literally a literal revolution in the industry; I would build into every single NX system directly, in-the-box day one, a complete Creation Suite—which would be something like the old Mario Artist series for N64. This would allow people to use the NX controller and stylus/touchscreen directly to draw/paint art, including sprite/pixel are and textures for polygons; create music (a bit like Mario Paint's music mode); create animations; create/edit movies (using the camera etc); make polygon models; and even make full, albeit relatively simple, video games (anything from NES level up to N64 probably, and maybe even a bit beyond)—all for FREE and installed in every single new NX system out-the-box. All these creations could be shared among all NX users and even Wii U owners via Nintendo's new single connected service, and possibly 3DS owners in some cases—where those people could then play and enjoy them or modify them even further—as well as just shared to the general Internet and on sites like YouTube (if it's a video or animation you made). Just imagine all that content, some of it potentially brilliant, being made by users and available to other NX users from the get-go. This suite would also be added to the Wii U and 3DS too, via that firmware update I mentioned earlier; so it really is one complete unified and connected system/service that works across all Nintendo's main consoles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmW9Ipc2FhA (An example of one of the packages in the old Mario Artist series for N64—in this case Polygon Maker—for reference).
Now, imo, THAT's how you sell people on the idea of—a "controller with a touchscreen"—or in this case the NX.
So, "basically"; you have a single self-contained portable console, at least as powerful as a Wii U, that can play games from every single console Nintendo has ever made with very little hassle. For some of the more convoluted stuff, like Wii motion-centric games, you can basically use your old Wii controllers directly on it. It even works as an extra controller for anyone that has a Wii U too (up to three can be used, plus the GamePad as the forth). The connected internet service will work on NX but also be added to both Wii U and 3DS too (via a firmware update), so that all three systems now share many software/firmware and online features—this whole unified/connected system Nintendo has been going on about—such as using a single account for everything and for cross-play on many of the titles. Then the cherry on top is the entire creation suite built into the console from day one, out-the-box, and available for every single Wii U, NX and 3DS owner to use for free.
This system would be sold quite simply as Nintendo's brand new next-gen portable console, code named NX—although I'd call it something way cooler and funnier like the P-NES; Portable Nintendo Entertainment System. This is a great throwback to Nintendo's best name for a console ever (Nintendo Entertainment System or NES)—that describes what the console actually is better than any other console name its ever went with since—and it's also a funny play on the fact the original Wii name sounded like a penis/peeing. It's also just an accurate acronym of what the system is: A Portable Nintendo Entertainment System (not actually a portable version of the original NES however).
Going forwards—ignoring the kinda jokey PNES name for a second—I would actually call any new Nintendo console systems NES 2, NES 3, NES 4 and so on. Probably written as NES2, NES3 etc.. In fact, I'd probably actually just call this system the NES2 (regardless of the fact it's a portable). It's basically like the rebirth of what the NES started all those years ago (a gaming revolution), and combines the best of every single Nintendo home console AND handheld since, into one super—yet amazingly simple/elegant and easy to understand on the surface—portable (where Nintendo dominates anyway). NES2 would just ring SO true for me
PS. This is a system and solution where I don't think it would matter one sh*t how powerful Sony and Microsoft's next consoles are. They simply couldn't touch this concept imo, if they're just more of the same but with more power. If this system—the proper next-gen Nintendo PORTABLE basically (an area where it has utterly dominated for 26 years) but so much more too—wasn't lapped up by third parties out the gate then I doubt anything Nintendo could do would be a notable success at that point.
@MIDP Agreed.
@Yorumi Technically, exclusive games are a gimmick. It's the one gimmick that the entire industry revolves around. Nintendo needs to focus more on this gimmick - from both them and 3rd parties.
As far as being "underpowered" goes, I should remind you all that the PS4 and XB1 are also very underpowered. If the NX is even 2x more powerful than the PS4, it will be considered underpowered. Basically, unless they want to play the clip of Kaz Hirai saying 599 US dollars, the NX will be underpowered. The same goes for the PS5 and XB4, which will probably come around 2018.
@Project_Dolphin No they are not gimmicks. No loading screens is an evolution for the open world genre that games after it will adept. Day and Night cycle is nothing new (Ocarina of time?!) but if well done can bring more variety to the game. Remember when the that one game (can't remember the name) for the GBA had a day/night cycle that was activated by a light sensor?! That was a gimmick! You only got certain things when you actually play at the right time, it didn't always work right and the whole game design was based on this concept working (which it didn't). That's a gimmick. Again: New gameplay elements are not the same. The transforming in StarFox Zero is not a Gimmick, the shooting through the gamepad is. From all I hear it's unnecessary complicated and takes you out off the game rhythm. It's just there to do something...anything with the gamepad so we use that gamepad. Because Miyamoto doesn't understand that the "newness" wears off after 5 minutes. It's not there because someone thought it makes the game better.
they need to bring back those "Wii would like to play ads"
@Project_Dolphin So, the answer is for Nintendo to keep selling under-powered hardware that has a gimmick attached to it? I don't want Nintendo to become another Sony or Microsoft by ditching Mario to the curb or throwing away their IPs, but lets face reality for a second here.
Barring the Wii, every single Nintendo console since the SNES has lost sales and its place in the marketplace. As each generation passes, Nintendo loses ground to Sony and Microsoft and with that lost ground, they lose their association to the general public.
Atari and Sega were once synonymous with the word video games. But due to mistakes and competition, they lost their place in the business. Sega is now a company that gets by peddling out Mobile and Sonic games, while the original Atari is owned by other companies.
Both were greats at their primes, both were the first things people thought of when they said the word video games. But look at them now. One is a shell of its former self, and the other is a brand name that gets trotted out when they want to make a retro 2600 system or collection.
You don't think it can happen to Nintendo? Think about this, there are generations of gamers now who grew up on the Playstation and Xbox. They played the games on those platforms, became fans of the systems, and now associate gaming with either the Playstation or the Xbox.
Nintendo is losing ground with each generation, and as they lose ground they lose more and more relevance, becoming more and more reliant on selling to a small group of Nintendo fanboys who remember their glory days on the NES, SNES, or Nintendo 64.
Can you honestly tell me that Nintendo approach is working? The Wii U is a failure in terms of sales, the 3DS has stagnated, and third parties have left the building to go work on games on the Playstation, Xbox, and PC.
Being innovative is one thing, but simply put its no longer working. Consumers don't give two flips if the Wii U has a tablet controller. They are going to the PS4 and Xbox One because they see consoles that have more features, more games sitting on the shelves, all their favorite franchises(WWE, Madden, Fallout, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc) and a promise of better support going into the future.
I don't see how creating a system that is comparable to its rivals is Nintendo suddenly selling out. The same innovative games will be there, the only difference is that Nintendo will have hardware that is not a generation behind their rivals, and they will have third party support.
I bet the NX will be Nintendo throwing another dart at the wall and hoping this gimmick sells like the Wii did. One thing people tend to forget is that for the Wii's sales, it arguably did tons of damage to Nintendo's brand. People stopped seeing Nintendo as a serious contender who was putting out cutting edge tech. Rather, people started seeing Nintendo as a gimmick company that sold Mario boxes on underpowered hardware with a gimmick attached.
More importantly, they will keep losing new generations of gamers to the Playstation and Xbox.
And as each generation passes, Nintendo gets shoved further and further into that corner as the third-tier company that can't compete with the big boys in the market place.
Ironically, the same fate that so many of Nintendo's rivals fell into during the NES and SNES era.
@Yorumi Well, I'd say it's used less now than in the past. It's no secret that Halo sold the original Xbox or that Tetris sold the original Game Boy. Those were technically gimmicks. Damn good gimmicks too. Nintendo relies upon this gimmick more so than the other companies, especially when it comes to their handhelds (well, that and the fact that they pretty much are the handheld market ). Nowadays, the exclusive game gimmick is more of a "cherry on top" thing when it comes to Xbox and PlayStation.
Agreed with the rest of your comment.
@Caryslan Fantastic comment. The best I have seen. God forbid Nintendo can have good hardware, third party support, great online and actually still make great games.
Again , the disinformation continues. When and where did anybody from Nintendo actually confirm that the NX is Wii U's successor ? The original quote and info regarding NX came from Iwata during the DENA announcement and also included an infographic that showed the NX alongside the Wii U and the 3DS - “ As proof that Nintendo maintains strong enthusiasm for the dedicated game system business, let me confirm that Nintendo is currently developing a dedicated game platform with a brand-new concept under the development codename ‘NX,’ " He also told investors recently at an officially translated meeting - " Because we are calling it a 'new concept' , we are not thinking of this as a 'simple replacement' for the 3DS or the Wii U " One has to assume that everything else is opinion and speculation until proven otherwise ; yet people are stating as fact that NX is the Wii U's replacement and is coming in 2016. The main supporting evidence for this now indisputable fact is that Nintendo didn't show any Wii U games for late 2016 , or show anything of the new Zelda. Even though they clearly stated before and reiterated after that they were only showing upcoming games.
Shigsy , the major issue with the tablet is that it is not sleek enough in appearance. By the time it came to market it appeared clunky and dated. Maybe it should have had a capacitive touch screen instead of a resistive one , but I'm guessing that Nintendo went capacitive to keep in line with the DS range. There are several issues with Nintendo's handling of the Wii U , but not particularly with the console itself. In fact , one could argue that it is the only true 'next gen' console on the market. The Wii U has very low power consumption ( because , environment ) and is a dedicated gaming device that has introduced a new way to play. People say the gamepad is a gimmick , but Microsoft and Sony were quick to announce their interpretations of it - with added latency. Every piece of hardware since the SNES / MD era has had a gimmick to help sell it.
People also moan about the amount and type of games Nintendo make , but they are supporting two consoles on their own. Sony cannot be bothered to support the Vita , even though they have the most third party support of any console maker. Yet , Nintendo get the hate. People went crazy at this years E3 when Microsoft announced 360 backwards compatibility for a selection of games on XBox One ; yet nobody mentions that the Wii U was backwards compatible with 99% of Wii games AND its controllers from launch. People shout for Nintendo to go third party , but Sony and Microsoft are more likely to go software only than Nintendo. They are currently selling gimped PCs ; if they could protect against piracy adequately they would already be selling their software on PC only , DRM'd up to the hilt along with EA and Ubisoft etc. They have lost billions between them selling hardware. Why would Nintendo write off the profits they make on their hardware ? Why would they nearly half the profits of their software ? In every other line of business profit rules , except in gaming , according to internet fanboys. Then it's about how many units sold. Until Nintendo sell the most. Then it doesn't count because of gimmicks. Or it's a fluke. Or it was only bought by casuals and grandmas. Apologies for the long post. Please understand. Staaaay fresh.
Nintendo need to think about more new Wii u games. Rather than new ways to play them.
A console and a pro controller is all that is needed, we can supply our own TV.
@kingofthesofa There is no such thing as being more next gen or true next gen. A generation is a generation. Past, Present, Future. You're one of those and that's it.
@Project_Dolphin Sony and Microsoft, unlike Nintendo, have the third parties to appeal to the younger crowd if they so want. You have the Mature games, the T rated games and the E rated games. With Nintendo, it's really just E rated. You get a few T rated games, even fewer M rated ones and that's about it. That's why third parties are important.
I also think a big part of it is the Ds was good with two screens because the screen was like less than an inch from the other screen, basically like having two monitors on your computer it is very easy to switch your eye between the two separate screens, but on the Wii U three screens are very far a and it is quite annoying to switch between the two screens, I have found this particularly interesting that it bothered me during playing new super mario brothers DS on the Wii U, the games I have like to soak far that use the second screen is where they use it specifically for maps or inventory. that's why I am quite afraid of starfox implementation, I really do not want to have to hold the controller up near the TV so I can see both screens, or have to constantly look up and down, this innovation makes something more complicated, that I think it should be skipped.
@Yorumi You're correct: it's currently $300 (thought it was $250 for some reason). It's way too early to tell but I just have a gut feeling the NX is doomed as well as you. They haven't learned anything. Iwata is the worst: the Wii's industry-disrupting "success" was a FLUKE and was a success for all the wrong reasons in terms of gaming. Console-wise, they're so lost and all they seem to do is keep smiling and skipping like everything's okay... But it's kinda what they get: they've been resting on their laurels for generations, keen to rely on past successes while the industry whisks by them, and have been reluctant to evolve with the times. Even if the NX was awesome, affordable, and gamer-centric (instead of toy-centric), Nintendo's image is severely damaged within the industry at this point. It's a mess.
@EngieBengie Yes , I know that. I was using the phrase in the way people in forums used it to bash the Wii U after launch ; ' Wii U aint next gen cos its less powerful than the 360 ' etc. I should have made that clearer in my original post.
Ah yes, we should all gather around the Wii U because truly it's failure on Dreamcast levels should be all pointed to tablets! Surely there could have been no marketing flaws, design flaws, or anything else. Miyamoto, I love you, but I'm not coddling the Wii U for the fact tablets were already big before the Wii U slapped into existence.
"...create a system that is both unique and affordable so that everyone can afford it and everyone can enjoy it."
Ah yeah, innovative idea. Go back to what made you successful with every other console. Why did you guys change the formula? I understand you're an innovative company by heart, but you don't change what isn't broken, or you just tweak it. This next console better be a winger, because if you look at any other game company in gaming history, they only had three shots before they tanked.
I still see on tv SSB43DS and other 3DS commercials but nothing about Wii U,so how are people supposed to understand the console if they don't even know it exists?
The Wii U failed because the Wii turned core gamers away from Nintendo anf the casuals went to smartphones. We don't want gimmicks. We want good games with traditional controls.
@Luffymcduck Thank you, I agree with you 100%
The comments have been made already but I'll say them again.
Between 2010 and 2012 Nintendo was MIA. They were clearly not developing a cutting edge console (otherwise they would have come out with an iPad - by the time Wii U released Apple was on iPad 3). I really hope that one day we will get a bit of an inside story of how they dropped the ball between '09 - 12 (developing of the next gen would have started at least in 2009).
And then there was the price point... while PS4 and XB1 were pushing the boundaries and asking for a premium price, Wii U launched for just a bit less money with a souped up PS3 performance. And with a tablet which you could not even take very far away from the console.
All would have been forgiven if they had had a stellar line up of games, showing what the Wii U is capable of. Sadly only Nintendoland managed it (and Zombi U to an extent, but it is not nearly a solid / memorable of an experience as, say The Last of Us). It just seemed (seems?) that Nintendo never had a clear idea of what the gamepad was.
Sure there is off-screen play. And maps. And the generic concept of "asymmetrical multiplayer". But none of those are killer apps that make people say "I want one of those".
On top of that, they reaped what they sowed with the Wii: marketed to a fickle "casual gamer" crowd, they never saw the need to upgrade to a better model to replace the machine that had been gathering dust for 4 years or so. The fact that the Wii U's marketing was atrocious did not help.
And to top it all off there was the fact that they somehow had not realised that developing HD games takes a lot more effort - which led to a notorious games drought in H1 2013.
All in all a fiasco of a console launch, from which they never recovered.
I had not meant to write a tirade like this but there you go. That's how I see it anyway.
What ever the NX is, just make sure it's easy for developers to port their games to. So for instance, use an x86 based CPU and make the hardware as close to a PC as possible. No more of this modified GameCube processor stuff. If they have to give up backwards compatibility, then so be it.
I personally am split on the weaker console / portable hybrid theory, on one hand it doesn't solve the issue of the lack of current gen console 3rd party ports, but on the other means it will unify Nintendo towards making games for just one system, which means we could finally get things like a Pokemon console game.
If they do make it a portable hybrid, they have to remember that it needs to actually be portable and it needs to be slim; no one wants to lug around something the same size and heft of the WiiU GamePad.
@Project_Dolphin Ok, I didn't know about the dynamic part.
You are partially right I think of them as unsuccessful. Mainly in the sense, that they aren't lasting. Gimmicks to me are something that you do once, you think it's cool, and as soon as the novelty wears off you move on. That's why I said the loading free open world is not a gimmick. Future games will try to have that too. The only gimmick I can think of that has become a standard is the rumble pack. And that's only because it doesn't bother people (I actually know some people it dies bother).
So yeah, part of my definition of the word "gimmick" is that it doesn't push the game forward but gives them smth that's cool for a while and then wears off.
@Yorumi Console exclusives absolutely drive sales and make people pick sides. The only reason I have a playstation is because I like its exclusives (Ratchet, Uncharted etc) more than Microsoft's. Both are fine consoles but it's the games that keep playing on Sony.
@Maxime "The Wii U failed because the Wii turned core gamers away from Nintendo anf the casuals went to smartphones. We don't want gimmicks. We want good games with traditional controls."
^^^This: a million times this. Silkscreen this on a set of bricks and chuck these through Nintendo's HQ windows. Darn it, it's really that simple. What's so hard about this?? When Yamamuchi-san passed, he took a lot of the soul of Nintendo with him because this newer Iwata-led incarnation of the company is like watching circus clowns attempting to engineer atomic clocks. They have no idea what they're doing. And this amiibo nonsense is even making it worse. Personally, I don't care for collectibles (I'm all about the games), haven't purchased a single one, and never will. But they can't even restock past figures that are currently unicorn rare and they're already announcing new waves??? Ridiculous.
@tysonfury I looked into that because that was also a pleasant surprise for me when they announced it at the E3, but it's less glorious than it sounds: it is indeed a Power PC emulator running on the Xbox One's hardware, combined with a disc detection program. Unfortunately, the drive cannot completely read the disc, just a code that is on there that verifies that it is an original disc. what happens next is that when the code is approved, you can download the Xbox 360 game from an external server to your Xbox One's hard drive and then play the game from there.
There seems to be some disagreement on some sites if the original disc needs to stay in the drive to be able to play the game, but either way, you cannot play straight from the disc, which is what I was personally hoping for, since I have a rather large collection of games and even when I don't install all of them, that would still mean that there wouldn't be an awful lot of space left for Xbox One games, even with a 1TB HDD. Being able to play from the disc would be an incentive for me to trade in the ol' 360, but now I guess I'll have to keep it.
@Yorumi The era of the Gamecube is not the same as now. Most people didn't buy every console out there back then. They picked one and stuck with it.
There are always more factors involved that "exclusives" and those vary from person to person. For me it was the DVD player and backwards compatibility. Price never entered into the equation.
@Yorumi Valid points. Marketing hype, "cool factor" and games are all part of the success recipe. Nintendo has had part of it but not all sadly enough.
True most of the big games are now multi plat however you still see the industry focus heavily on exclusivity whether it be a complete exclusive, timed or even exclusive DLC. The exclusive DLC is a horrible trend, but that's another issue all together.
@EngieBengie I firmly agree with you as far as the online issues are concerned, but the deal with DeNA should take care of that in the near future. We may even (finally) see a unified account system.
Well, first off: that is still in no way confirmed and sites asking UbiSoft for any info on that have received no answer whatsoever. Supposedly the game will be rebranded to Zombi if those rumors are true.
The problem they will have is translating the rather unique gameplay mechanics to Xbox One and PS4. The Xbox One version being the less difficult one since almost everyone has either a smart phone or a tablet lying around, but not every PS4 owner has a PS Vita, so I truly wonder how they would translate all the integrated GamePad stuff back into a one-screen game. The GamePad is what made this zombie game stand out against all the others in it's genre. Having to look at your GamePad while searching through bags and so on is what created the tension because you could see zombies creeping up on you but until you were finished, you couldn't do anything. Using it as a keypad for electronic doors made it more immersive and there were a number of other implementations such as the local multiplayer game that made it really fun and a good example of how to use the GamePad for a lot more than just a map or the Off TV Play option.
As for them not making great games anymore; that's all a matter of opinion, same as the period that we think that they were at their best. To me that's the period in the 8 and 16 bit era, so that's well before your time, and for you it is a later period, I guess N64 & GameCube, or maybe some of the later SNES releases that you may still have played.
They still put some great games out there and they also had some really great titles on the Wii, but nowadays there's so much sh** hitting the fan that the sparse few gems that get published don't always get all the attention and credit that they deserve.
And just look at general perception of the Nintendo brand: it still rules and opinionated sites like GameSpot and IGN giving Yoshi's Woolly World a 6 and a 7.4 respectively certainly isn't helping things along either.
Even if you're not a fan of NLife or any other Nintendo friendly site, you could still wonder how results could vary so wildly while most people agree that this game is another fine example of what makes Nintendo such a great game designing company.
But I agree that things need to change: different/more compatible hardware architecture, more memory, better online structure and indeed no more misuse of IP's such as what we've got coming now in the form of Animal Crossing Party and Metroid Prime Federation Force but games that we actually want. Is Nintendo going to give them to us? Only time will tell, but I'm not keeping my hopes up for those, but I'm also not going down the path of "NX is doomed" even before it has arrived.
Some of the criticism must have reached them or will have seeped through on some level and I don't think that reading too much into Miyamoto's comments is a smart thing to do, so I definitely do not interpret "how do we create a system that is both unique and affordable so that everyone can afford it and everyone can enjoy it" as another cheap and weak console that can't offer any interesting alternative to the discerning gamer.
Nintendo hasn't yet made two big failures in a row; the Wii was a success financially so it not having any good games later on doesn't matter, and the GameCube, although (wrongfully) also deemed a failure by many actually did well enough to still create a small profit for Nintendo, even with the modest sales numbers that it had. The Wii U will more than likely not reach a comparable number in units sold or money generated, and then there's also other figures to take into account to make a good comparison.
It might end up also making them a tiny profit or it might indeed end up being a financial failure as well as a commercial one.
But as far as I'm concerned, they have a fairly realistic chance of turning things around in their favor again with the NX, if they manage to hit most of the buttons. There will probably still be some stuff to complain about, but I'm going to assume that most of the mistakes made will be addressed next time around. Contrary to the other two it's their core business, so they will have to...
@Kirk
What a great read man, that's exactly what I've been trying to get across to people who think's it's a Wii U replacement because of a few misinterpreted quotes from Reggie, Iwata and Miyamoto.
Well everything except the creation suite thing you mentioned as that's your idea, also I don't how everyone is so dense to the fact Nintendo like to keep their budgets low for their games and so they can enjoy high software sales for games that can retain their value decades as opposed to the 3rd party games that these idiots keep saying are so vital to Nintendo's survival as company.
The thing with 3rd party games is the budgets are massively over inflated and crippling to the point were if these companies don't sell 5-8 million then they go bust, Nintendo operates on the belief that you should have to blow half a billion just to make a good game.
Also they do games development from a gameplay perspective first before adding in characters that they think will fit in well with the gameplay they've established at stage 1 of the development cycle after that they work on unique things to do with the mechanics they've made while adding personality to the game as well.
I don't understand what does make 3DS so successful; I'm a wii U owner I had my cousins 3ds for 6 months and it didn't kept my interest.... Can anyone explain me?
It's nice to see them give some honest criticism of their console, though I don't think the growth of tablets is the big reason for Wii U's lack of sales. Trying to be innovative is always a good thing. However, it's a bad idea to add a gimmick to a new console without a clear idea of how it's going to improve gaming. I've seen very few Wii U games that use the Gamepad in a clever way that add something to the game that couldn't be put on the main screen.
The Wii U, even in dedicated gaming circles, was met with criticism prior to launch. A confusing name that included 'Wii' in the title (which did and continues to confuse some consumers who see it as an add-on) and weaker horsepower under its hood than the rival products. I love my system and am still very happy with the purchase, but Nintendo should take the lessons it learned from this release and focus on a system with a new name and a new look.
@Yorumi Well, it certainly wasn't my intention to make you think that way, which is also why I didn't mention any other games or scores, and also because that wasn't my point, so I think you misread me. Allow me to explain: the point was that Nintendo is still seen as kiddy and game scores on non-friendly sites reflect that general view and THAT is what I meant when I said that it is certainly not helping this time around with Yoshi's Woolly World.
So, I agree fully on giving credit to the FF games and I certainly don't think that Mario platformers are greater than that. They may be prime examples of how to do a near perfect 2D platformer, but in no way does that even come close to comparing it to the likes of FF or OoT for that matter. Hope that eases your mind...
@Yorumi And also: that was such a small part of my comment, but THAT was the only thing that jumped out for you?
@CreativeWelshman this article is sadly bait for hate. I am hoping this is a language barrier thing but tablets like the iPad were very successful before the Wii U. So wouldn't it be more the Wii U failed to steal the thunder from tablets? I like my Wii U so this is not meant as hate but as an observation.
@Peach64 @crimsontadpoles
Games can only do so much when you're working within the confines of a single screen and ordinary controller.
Unique hardware may not be necessary to make an innovative game, but it sure does help. There are many things that can be done with the second screen that simply cannot be done without it. Experiences that we would have otherwise never gotten. And I'm thankful for that. But it's not always something that "couldn't be done", sometimes it could but is just not as good.
There are many games I've played this gen that either accomplished something otherwise impossible or was much funner, streamlined and/or entertaining as a result. Pikmin 3, Wii Sports Club Golf, Splatoon, MH3U and Zelda Windwaker to name a few off the top of my head.
@WaveBoy Nope, not really. Sure, it works in ZombiU, but it's nothing major and only adds very little to the experience (and even detracts from it, having to shift your eyes between screens). Haven't played Game & Wario, but I think the same would apply there.
As for Nintendo Land, it basically shows that the most you're going to get out of the Gamepad is create party-games, where one player utilises the Gamepad. Those are fun for a short while, but nothing I'm impressed with.
Why the Wii U is a failure:
1/ you alienated your hardcore market with the Wii, then expected them come back, but then you quickly lost all the third party support that was making hardcore games
2/ the system is as powerful as the 360/PS3, but yet more expensive and with less games
3/ you can't just go to a store and buy a replacement gamepad controller
4/ you keep trying to shove gamepad crap (gyro controls etc.) down our throats when must of us just want a normal controller
5/ the amount of hdd space is pathetic! 32gb when most systems offer 500gb-1tb, come on, Nintendo!!
6/ your online services are laughable compared to the competition, seriously, no voice chat??
7/ advertise the system alil, geesh!
8/ stop giving all the good games to the 3ds, give some of them to the Wii U! (Animal crossing you showed at e3 comes to mind...)
There is more, but that's just some of the problems
Why does everybody hate the Wii? The Wii was awesome. I also will say that 3rd party support is important but not AS important as other platforms. As long as they get enough parity that it's not a joke and continue with high quality 1st party games. They should do pretty well. There name can still mean something.
@Monkeh
Completely agree. I feel they need to do more to capture the imagine like the Wii did but somehow make it long term. Gamepad has it's cool moments like ASA and a handful of launch window 3rd party titles, but overall it's kinda uninspired. Definitely not enough to carry an underpowered system.
@Yorumi Those games fully deserved the scores they got imho. Not because they were Nintendo games, but because they were actually really good and/or brought something new to the table or even revolutionized gaming as a whole. I do agree with you on the part of Nintendo allowing some games to go below their usual standard of quality recently, but Yoshi's Woolly World certainly isn't one of those games.
I'll skip GameSpot's review, since I haven't taken that site serious in ages, but as for IGN: I actually sort of defended them on another Nintendo related site, saying they have become somewhat milder, but after I saw their ridiculous review of Yoshi's Woolly World, I had to edit that comment. They either don't get the game, or they gave the job to review it to the wrong person...
@hYdeks You really need to scratch off number two of that list. It's a gross misconception that just keeps on rearing it's ugly head in times like these...
@aaronsullivan I know, but I'm saying we never really got the chance to find out if that's true, because even if you never heard of tablets, Nintendo has failed to make games that show why the gamepad is a selling point. They've talked it up a lot with all it's potential, but haven't delivered on that potential.
Regarding the reworking, the issue is Nintendo didn't prepare early enough. They put themselves in a situation where they couldn't put out enough games since they chased away virtually all third-party one way or another with the Wii U. At the end of the day, it's their fault regardless of the circumstances.
I don't want to be Debbie downer here about the NX, but it does not sound 3rd party friendly. I seem to recall a developer, I believe Bethesda but could be wrong, said that one of the biggest problems Nintendo faces is trying to keep their systems affordable. Typically in the sense that they want it to stay quiet. That somehow leads frustrating game optimizations.
Based on what I'm hearing of NX, it's going to be the same way.
If Nintendo want the NX to sell more than 5m they need third party support.
Without third-party support and a "weaker than PS4" console the only people buying that console are members of this site (and similar sites).
Those that end statements with "... that's good enough for me."
Examples:
"Graphics are poor but that's good enough for me" or "no online but that's good enough for me" and "console is weak but that's good enough for me".
I really can't wait to see what Nintendo can possibly produce with the NX to bring consumers back. Their games? Didn't work for the Wii U. Unlike the Wii generation when the biggest selling games were ALL Nintendo, I doubt by the end of this gen Wii U will have a game in the top 20, maybe MK8 might scrape it. Nintendo games don't sell enough consoles anymore.
Nintendo need to go back to the basics, that's what I think. A good solid console that gives consumers no reason not to buy it.
If they can eliminate the two main excuses "it's too weak" and "no third party support" they stand a chance. Throw in a good steady amount of their big games with some new stuff and things can get better.
You know. I'm sick. Literally sick. It's making me weak and I just want to yell at people that are saying Nintendo hasn't made use of the GamePad. Though there were a couple surprisingly weak uses in high profile games, the very first launch game made the case very strongly. Those experiences in Nintendo Land are still some of the best asynchronous game play out there. Yep, it was themed in an off-putting way to core gamers, but it is unique in the console world and compelling to many. Off screen play by itself is a strong feature to many. Two players on separate screens works much better than split screen for games like Sonic All-Stars, COD, Hyrule Warriors, the wholly different and consistently amusing miiVerse and all its little language-barrier-free drawings wouldn't exist without it. Then there's the obvious advantages of stylus and screen for editing stages and drawing apps, and the standout indie games like affordable space adventures.
Maybe you don't get it. Maybe Nintendo failed at showing it to you and convincing you. But it is there and it is significant to games. The potential is much more than the name gimmick suggests even though it may truly fade into such a thing for reasons that don't include the reality of what it can and already has done.
I'm going to go take some medication
Oh and can people stop saying tablets were already successful when the Wii U came out. We are talking about when Nintendo decided on what the console would be which is some time soon after the original Wii launched. They were trying to skate to where the puck would be and misjudged. Do you remember the skepticism and outright mockery towards the iPad when it was announced?
@TheRealThanos the Wii U is more powerful then then them yes, but would still be considered last gen compared to ps4 and Xbox one. Even though I said all that, I still love the Wii U , Nintendo's games are always great
No surprise here, I don't agree with Miyamoto... Others have made good points about marketing the console and not having good enough games at launch.
But also, why were kids going to buy a WiiU to play the same (similar) Nintendo games they could play on their 3DS and a few botched 3rd party games from the console generation that was on its way out at that point?
It took far too long to get to anything really that exciting, in many ways the wrong games (as good as some of them were) came out first, and some of the games that may have helped to sell the system never will now.
Sadly I can't see NX being any different to WiiU, especially after the 'affordable' comments... Under powered again!? = bye bye decent 3rd part developers?!
I think if WiiU proves anything, it proves that NX will need more than the 'fans' to succeed...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't tablets come out before the Wii U? Don't answer that, because they did. I thought tablets inspired the Wii U. Tablets had nothing to do with the Wii U's struggle. It's a number of factors that are Nintendo's own fault.
Also, back in the NES, SNES and N64 days, many Nintendo games like Starfox didn't look like games aimed at kids. Sure, they weren't super realistic, but that was due to the limitations of graphics at the time, now virtually every game made by Nintendo looks like it has been designed for a five year old (even if that isn't how they play) ... and for many gamers that is quite a hurdle to overcome.
For me, a game like WaveRace, Pilotwings (a proper one not the glorified 3d demo), F-Zero or a Metroid is sorely missing from the WiiU line up.
@Goomba77 The affordable comment doesn't mean much. Sony and Microsoft went for "affordable" with the XB1 and PS4. Those systems are very weak. Unless Nintendo wants to play the clip of Kaz Hirai saying 599 US Dollars, the NX WILL be underpowered. The PS5 and XB4 will be underpowered too in order to be affordable for the mass market.
Tablets? Didn't even think of tablets. I just assumed it was the lackluster graphics and coming in 3rd to Sony and Microsoft. http://5starblog.com/?s=Nintendo
Just waiting to see what NX is, so I can quickly figure out if Nintendo has learn from their commercial failure. I don't see the 3ds and Wii U lasting more than 2yrs, so they better have something to impress.
"I think unfortunately what ended up happening was that tablets themselves appeared in the marketplace and evolved very, very rapidly, and unfortunately the Wii [U] system launched at a time where the uniqueness of those features were perhaps not as strong as they were when we had first begun developing them"
I see it differently: You guys created a tablet-controller BECAUSE tablets where popular! And failed gigantically because people already bought Apple's and really didn't want a home-console with a tablet-controller!
@Caryslan BRAVO!!!
Can we pin this right at the top of this story.
@Project_Dolphin Here's the thing, the Playstation is marketed to everyone who has a passing interest in video games or media. That's how it has always been.
Look at your PS3 section at a video game store next time you are there. If the store has a good selection, then you will see a wide array of games that appeal to different tastes in gaming. Want an anime style JRPG? How about a Fighting game? Racing games up your alley? Want to play an action game? Is there a sports game that you want to play? Are you a fan of anime like Dragon Ball or Naruto who wants to play games based on those IPs?
Then the Playstation has you covered. Hell, at this point, the Xbox has you covered as well!
The Playstation and Xbox are designed to appeal to the mass audience by not only playing a wide array for games, but offering the ability to play disc-based movies(DVDs and Blu-Rays), download movies and TV shows from online stores, and having apps that not only include Netflix and Hulu, but have expanded to things like NFL Sunday Ticket.
As much as people want to paint the Playstation and Xbox as dude bro Call of Duty boxes that thrive on nothing but mature games soaked in blood, gore, and nudity the reality is that Sony and Microsoft have figured out how to make their consoles have mass market appeal.
Here's the thing, Sony and Microsoft have figured out how to appeal to virtually any audience with their systems. Nintendo on the other hand, has not figured it out yet. Look at the games on offer for the Wii U. There is much less variety and fewer features on the Wii U then on the other two platforms.
And this ties into my previous post. Nintendo systems are going to get ignored by all but the most hardcore of fanboys as long as they keep putting out systems that offer fewer features and have fewer games, which in turn, limits variety on their systems.
A nitpick, but while I appreciate that they are attempting to make the system affordable, I think the better focus would be to make software (that is, the games) more affordable for the masses, which would make the system more attractive. Nintendo puts out the best games (imo), and it's true that they have been doing more sales and eshop price points are cheaper, but for the games I want to play (mostly first party games) the price point tends to still be pretty high, and this is making gaming as a hobby less viable for me
I'm not going to make any absolute statements in the face of the information vacuum on the NX, but I will say if it's a standalone console which isn't backwards compatible with software and hardware (including stuff I downloaded with my NNID and Wii disc games) from the previous couple of generations, it's very unlikely I'll be taking the plunge and likely be done with consoles unless Apple does something in that sphere.
If it's a handheld that can connect to the TV that might be interesting, but I have an iPad I game on and honestly I can't see carrying that (which I mainly read books on and surf the web, read email) and another device. Without compelling software I have no reason to upgrade and a new Mario Kart or Metroid game will not make a sale. The nice thing about skipping another generation or even all future consoles is that I can still play and enjoy my Wii U.
@hYdeks Obviously, since it was only modestly updated power wise, so it wasn't all that hard for the competition to better that. Keep in mind though that we can't just make a 1 on 1 comparison: Power architecture is known for being VERY power efficient and giving relatively high results with hardware that at first glance seems to be hugely inferior. x86 on the other hand is not power efficient, but does offer ease of development and compatibility with a far broader range of tools, so from a developers' point of view it is the friendliest platform.
You can see that when you do take the time and put in the effort, some really nice results can be achieved on the Wii U, but most large third party publishers don't want to invest that time anymore because the amount of Wii U's sold don't justify all the time and money that they would have to invest into it (and subsequently probably wouldn't see a healthy return on) so that is where we are now.
And indeed Nintendo's games are great. Not all of them, mind you, but I would dare to make a bet that if we would make a list of all first party titles that Nintendo will come out on top with their titles and the awards won for them. And obviously we love them, or at least most of us do. Why else would you be on a site called NintendoLife?
@Project_Dolphin Im unsure whether you're a fanboy or honestly can't see the mistakes that Nintendo has made. What Nintendo is doing now isn't working, if they stay on this path they either die off or go third party and quit making hardware all together. As much as you try and downplay Sony and Microsoft, they are quite obviously playing the game much better than Nintendo right now, the sales numbers say it all. The only reason Nintendo used under powered hardware in the original Gameboy and their home consoles was so they would be more affordable than the competition. And that worked at the time, but it isn't any longer. As you've stated several times, the times and gaming audience have changed. People prefer more powerful hardware that ensures longevity. When spending several hundred on a console you might as well spend a bit extra for one that is relatively powerful and will be able to support games for longer. One of the biggest drawbacks of consoles as opposed to PCs is their closed architecture, so company's must make them powerful enough to last 5+ years while staying relatively close to mid-low range PCs. Right now the PS4 and One are quite obviously under powered, so if Ninty brings the hardware(an no mandatory gimmicks) with NX that is capable of 4k they will bring in third parties which in turn will bring in a wider audience. Currently Nintendo has nothing to pad out the months between their big releases which is normally where third party games would come in. As much as you seem to hate to admit it, the PS4 and One have a much larger selection of games than the Wii U does, which is why those systems are selling so well. The stereotype you've employed of the Playstation and Xbox being for 'dude bros' is just that, and it's the exact same as saying that Nintendo games are for children. Nothing bad would come of Nintendo having third parties to help pad out the time in between the games Nintendo itself releases. As it stands the game droughts that the Wii U suffers would be unbearable if I didn't own other consoles, and I'm sure plenty of other people feel the same. This, is why the Wii U is relegated to secondary console status for all but the most hardcore of fanboys. There will still be Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong, but people would be able to Play Call of Duty or whatever else they wanted to as well. It would simply be adding value to the system, not selling out. Nintendo doesn't have to, and shouldn't, sell their soul and try and become another Sony or Microsoft. But it's undeniable that what they're doing now is not working. They need to put more powerful hardware that is capable of 4k in their next console as well as drastically improve the online infrastructure of the eshop, throw money at third party studios to support the system, and really do anything they can to appeal to the wider gaming audience. I love Nintendo alas much as the next person. I grew up on Nintendo and Sony, and some of my best gaming memories are with Nintendo franchises. And that's exactly why I want them to pull it together. The day they are forced to quit making hardware and go third party would be a sad day for me indeed. Pretending they can do no wrong and that this insane strategy is working will only drive them into the ground even further.
"My vision of Mario has always been that he's sort of representative of everyone. He's kind of a blue-collar hero. And so that's why we chose these roles for him that were things like carpenters and plumbers."
Okay, cool. So can you please stop making him so effin' perfect, then?
@Project_Dolphin You are clearly a fanboy, Nintendo can do no wrong and everyone is in the wrong. Everything is excusable for them, hell you've used every defence in the book I'm amazed you don't work for them in PR.
Let's get real, you've already been explained why they are failing and it is true, they NEED third parties, full period. Not buts, no nothing, they need them, every Nintendo fan that harkens back at "good ol' days" of the NES and SNES does so because aside from the great first party offerings we had the best third party offerings too. Just compare game collections from any console post SNES and you'll see a decline in number and variety of games ending in a mostly Nintendo centric collection and it is not because only Nintendo is the best.
Nintendo alone can't sustain the console, the droughts are unbearable and it hurts the console hard. Hell imagine having the latest Zelda, Mario, Star Fox or Metroid along with the latest numbered Final Fantasy, Dark Souls, Doom, Assassin Creed, or Persona. I already feel you disregarding each game I described, and you know what I get you, you and many Nintendo enthusiasts are the product of their mistakes, as third parties abandoned them you had to conform with only their offerings and you loved them so much your minds made up excuse after excuse of how bad third parties were until you believed them, and now they are fact even if you are wrong.
Point is to get third parties there must be massive undertakings from Nintendo but the first and more important is giving them a console that they can port all their multiplats. And for that they need to compete on a hardware and software (internet, accounts, all that jazz) side. I'm really sad about Nintendo, I've supported the countless times but I can no longer turn a blind eye to their screw ups, they need to adapt or die.
@Project_Dolphin of course they don't have to, they have enough third party support to not have this massive droughts. It is not a game of who is better or who is not, it is about having enough games so that aside from a very reduced community of hardcore fans you also have a healthy community of normal fans. I don't want all games on a single console, but I don't want Nintendo consoles just be that, I want the comfort of having Nintendo offerings along with multiplat games without resorting to other consoles, is that so hard to understand?
And I'm not alone in this, numbers don't lie and the potential customers are dwindling.
@Project_Dolphin Man you really are thick headed, doesn't matter you are too caught up in defending the undefendable so good day sir.
@Yorumi Indeed I suppose you are right. I was just thinking that if the NX does come out in 2017 and has a 5 year minimum life span, then it'll be 2022 before a new console is released and at the rate technology is moving that 4k will be much more commercially viable by that point. Though you are right that the success of the NX certainly wouldn't be dependent on whether it is 4k ready or not.
@Yorumi
I noticed you use the word shoehorned a lot regarding Wii. Are there any motion games that you DON'T feel have shoehorned controls, or are just disgusted with motion controls in general?
There were a flurry of mistakes with the Wii U. The name, the obligatory lack of games at launch, poor relationships with third parties, craptastically backwards stance on digital libraries, accounts, and eShops.
Nintendo does know how to make fun games, but I stand by the sentiment they don't know what they're doing as a business in an evolving world. Or should I say "evolved". It's no secret they can absorb the hit this time, and should that darkest of days come they'd be fine as a game company. But they need to wake up to how the world is if they're going anywhere.
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